[DF] Bard Song Terror - does Bardic Talent help?

[Onkl]

Hi guys

In Dungeon Fantasy, does Bardic Talent help Bard Song Terror in any way, eg. applies a penalty to the Fright Check?

Cheers

Onkl

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by Onkl

Hi guys

In Dungeon Fantasy, does Bardic Talent help Bard Song Terror in any way, eg. applies a penalty to the Fright Check?

Cheers

Onkl

Nope. One wonders why it isn't Terror, Active, as there the talent would have an effect. Also, as per Powers, if Terror is used to bolster intimidation, talent also helps.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

Nope.

That's correct!

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

One wonders why it isn't Terror, Active

Because then it would affect just a single target, which is a built-in and unremovable part of Active. Scary music should affect all who hear it. A bard isn't a mentalist.

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

Also, as per Powers, if Terror is used to bolster intimidation, talent also helps.

Yep. Even if everyone in the area makes a successful Fright Check, Terror still gives the discretionary +1 to +4 for "displays of supernatural powers," and Talent lets you add a bonus on top of that.

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Because then it would affect just a single target, which is a built-in and unremovable part of Active. Scary music should affect all who hear it. A bard isn't a mentalist.

It is also something that is part of Mind Control, and that doesn't disqualify it from being in Bard Song...

Also, you could take Active, Area effect, and Emanation, to restore the multitarget effect.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

It is also something that is part of Mind Control, and that doesn't disqualify it from being in Bard Song...

Also, you could take Active, Area effect, and Emanation, to restore the multitarget effect.

You might notice that the Bard-Song abilities in DF 1 lack all modifiers but the power modifier. There's a good reason for this! DF 1 is meant to be simple and not require things like Powers to use.

Also note that dramatically speaking, Mind Control tends to be subtle and Terror tends to be overt. You sing the song of Mind Control to one person. You scream the song of Terror to a mob. You could certainly reverse this, but adding area to Mind Control and single-target focus to Terror does mean modifiers, and as I said . . . those aren't cool for DF 1.

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by Kromm

You might notice that the Bard-Song abilities in DF 1 lack all modifiers but the power modifier. There's a good reason for this! DF 1 is meant to be simple and not require things like Powers to use.

Also note that dramatically speaking, Mind Control tends to be subtle and Terror tends to be overt. You sing the song of Mind Control to one person. You scream the song of Terror to a mob. You could certainly reverse this, but adding area to Mind Control and single-target focus to Terror does mean modifiers, and as I said . . . those aren't cool for DF 1.

I understand that. I also understand that later books have added more complex builds, requiring modifiers found on Powers (DF 11 and DF 14 are notably guilty of this) but when they do, they expose them as fully built abilities, including a full description, and only including the stats for curious players and GMs.

Then again, such a power could easily become an Improved Terror ability... but it won't be cheap.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

I understand that. I also understand that later books have added more complex builds, requiring modifiers found on Powers (DF 11 and DF 14 are notably guilty of this) but when they do, they expose them as fully built abilities, including a full description, and only including the stats for curious players and GMs.

Then again, such a power could easily become an Improved Terror ability... but it won't be cheap.

Oh, the later books definitely add modifiers! I'm talking about DF 1. Please realize that most people who try DF for the first time start with DF 1 and 2, so I answer all DF questions assuming just that, unless someone mentions that they have later volumes. DF 3 and beyond are essentially "advanced" DF, although we're hoping that people will come to see the DF Adventures and DF Monsters series as natural companions to DF 1 and 2 . . .

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Oh, the later books definitely add modifiers! I'm talking about DF 1. Please realize that most people who try DF for the first time start with DF 1 and 2, so I answer all DF questions assuming just that, unless someone mentions that they have later volumes. DF 3 and beyond are essentially "advanced" DF, although we're hoping that people will come to see the DF Adventures and DF Monsters series as natural companions to DF 1 and 2 . . .

I know that DF 1 was an experiment, but can we assume that from the get go, DF was built as an at least 3 book series? As in, you already had an outline for DF 2 and DF3 when you wrote DF 1? or at least when DF 1 hit e23?

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

I know that DF 1 was an experiment, but can we assume that from the get go, DF was built as an at least 3 book series? As in, you already had an outline for DF 2 and DF3 when you wrote DF 1? or at least when DF 1 hit e23?

Not actually . . . DF 1 and 2 were two parts of a single DF proposal, broken up for ease of production and to offer the near-universal players' guide/GM's guide structure found in fantasy RPGs. DF 3 was what happened when somebody said, "Wow, these are selling well! Want to write another?" There was no secret series plan or canon bible behind it.

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Not actually . . . DF 1 and 2 were two parts of a single DF proposal, broken up for ease of production and to offer the near-universal players' guide/GM's guide structure found in fantasy RPGs. DF 3 was what happened when somebody said, "Wow, these are selling well! Want to write another?" There was no secret series plan or canon bible behind it.

With 20/20 hindsight, would you change things in how you organized or considered DF? Would you have taken the Player's Guide/GM's Guide/Monster Manual trinity as a model?