1950's Spaceships

[Robbo]

Hello all,

What are some ways to model hypothetical spaceships ca the 1950's using Spaceships and its supplements? I'm looking at chemical and atomic rockets. Is the TL 7 or 6 (or 6+1)? Any sources or advice would be appreciated.

[RyanW]

I would use TL 7, with a little bit of TL 8 sneaking in. Remember that in the 50s (like every other period) futurists thought every current trend would continue indefinitely, but nothing profoundly new or society changing would be invented. See the 20 lane mega-highway with atomic powered cars taking men to their jobs feeding punch cards to computers, while the lady of the house stays at home in her sythetic fiber dress and hoses down the plastic furniture.

[tratclif]

My source materials are all at home, so I may be off on details.

For chemical rockets that actually were operational during the 1950s, halving the delta-v is close-enough for lox-kerosene or lox-alcohol. The chemical rockets in space are hydrogen-oxygen rockets, and are close-enough for some of the wilder speculations (eg. liquid-ozone-flourine of all things).

For nuclear rockets, designers in the 1950s were very optimistic. The Ragnarok-class from Warships and Space Pirates is listed as GURPS TL8, but is based on a 1961 concept that was planned to be operational by 1972. The Enceladus-class from Exploration and Colony ships is based on the blue-sky ideas of the original Project Orion team for a ship that could be operational in the mid-80s but is listed as GURPS TL9. The Odyssey-class from the same book is a version of the Discovery One from 2001: A Space Odyssey.

I don't think there's currently a module for a high-thrust nuclear thermal rocket that can lift off from Earth's surface. That would probably be a hard-science TL9 design technically, but most of the hard-science designs are based on work started in the 1950s.

[Robbo]

I don't think there's currently a module for a high-thrust nuclear thermal rocket that can lift off from Earth's surface. That would probably be a hard-science TL9 design technically, but most of the hard-science designs are based on work started in the 1950s.

Maybe the nuclear saltwater rocket with a very cinematic disregard for radiation?

[Faolyn]

Originally Posted by Robbo

Hello all,

What are some ways to model hypothetical spaceships ca the 1950's using Spaceships and its supplements? I'm looking at chemical and atomic rockets. Is the TL 7 or 6 (or 6+1)? Any sources or advice would be appreciated.

I think that, in order to get what you normally find in 50s SF (or at least in the movies I've seen, which, I admit, were mostly on MST3k), you want TL6^. In other words, you can just make anything up, really, using your unobtanium of choice, or just say that typical 50s-era rockets work a heck of a better than they ever did in reality.

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by Robbo

Maybe the nuclear saltwater rocket with a very cinematic disregard for radiation?

The nuclear saltwater rocket is already considered to be cinematically efficient. You might tone down its risky side effects (ie, Volatile system and fuel, dangerous exhaust)... or maybe not. In fact, I think a 1950's-era cavalier attitude towards radiation fits perfectly with it, even if the engine itself is potentially quite dangerous.

Originally Posted by Faolyn

I think that, in order to get what you normally find in 50s SF (or at least in the movies I've seen, which, I admit, were mostly on MST3k), you want TL6^. In other words, you can just make anything up, really, using your unobtanium of choice, or just say that typical 50s-era rockets work a heck of a better than they ever did in reality.

On the contrary, I think limited TL9^ to TL10^ is a fine fit for 50's-era "hard" (but optimistic) sci fi. At the time, they understood the theoretical limits of engines, but they didn't yet know the limits of engineering - they thought these hyper-efficient nuclear drives would be available within 50 years, along with Fusion reactors and flying cars. I suppose you could call that TL6^ or TL7^... but why reinvent the wheel? The equivalent engines are present in the Spaceships series, just far ahead of where 50's sci fi thought they'd be. Likewise, the weapons of choice for these craft tend to be Lasers, Particle Beams and Missiles; again, TL 9-10 is an appropriate fit. Just say that they are limited in computer technology for whatever reason. This is actually pretty standard, even in modern science fiction like Star Trek (admittedly space opera rather than hard sci fi) which has FTL travel and matter<->energy converters, but no cell phones or internet.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

The nuclear saltwater rocket is already considered to be cinematically efficient. You might tone down its risky side effects (ie, Volatile system and fuel, dangerous exhaust)... or maybe not. In fact, I think a 1950's-era cavalier attitude towards radiation fits perfectly with it, even if the engine itself is potentially quite dangerous.

What about the program where they secretly gave pregnant women radioactive iodine isotopes? Yeah the '50s attitude toward radiation pretty much allows salt-water rockets to take off every hour from every major city's downtown spaceport.

[Earther]

I was going to mention Atomic Horror for ideas. But you mentioned you're using 4e rules.

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

What about the program where they secretly gave pregnant women radioactive iodine isotopes? Yeah the '50s attitude toward radiation pretty much allows salt-water rockets to take off every hour from every major city's downtown spaceport.

I've heard it suggested that this attitude may stem from our experiences in the World Wars, where the US lost over half a million people in total; world wide, more than 70 million people were killed in those two wars. So following WWII, life was relatively "cheap", especially when faced with the Cold War and the potential for an even more devastating nuclear apocalypse. Our military and government took risks with people's lives that would not be considered today. I suppose the turning point may have been the Vietnam war, which led to such public outcry against what was seen (on those newfangled color TVs) as senseless violence. But anyways, this is straying from the topic at hand. Yes, Americans in the 50's, especially in the military, displayed a very different attitude towards risk, from a combination of recent cultural memories, an underestimate of what the risks actually were, and the Cold War spurring them on one-up their Communist counterparts, even if it cost them health or life.

[Robbo]

I was going to mention Atomic Horror for ideas. But you mentioned you're using 4e rules.

I like the fast and easy design of 4 ed. Spaceships. I am having trouble getting it to correspond with earlier design systems, the WW2 MVDS and GURPS: Traveller for example. Has anyone done anything towards conversions?