[DF][First Time] Advice in pregenerating the cleric and wizard

[apoc527]

Hi everyone,

My group just recently completed a 6 month GURPS Fallout/XCOM game, which was our first GURPS 4th Ed experience and, for most people, their first GURPS experience overall. You'll be happy to hear that everyone wants to stick with GURPS (at least when I GM) and it was received FAR better than the 4th Edition of That Other Game.

I have the opportunity to squeeze two weeks of a DF game into our schedule and I have pregenerated about 7 PCs at 150 points using the DFOntheCheap.pdf from Eric's website (great article--thanks for that, Eric!).

I want to give the players, all experienced roleplayers, a choice (and save some pregens for PC deaths), but nobody has played with GURPS in a low TL, magic-exists setting yet. As such, we have no experience with GURPS Magic. My questions are these:

1. For the cleric, should I use the standard magic system or try one of the Divine Favor flavors of cleric? If I use the Divine Favor version, does that make the DF: Clerics book useless?

2. For the wizard, what 20 or so spells would you choose if you were playing GURPS DF for the first time and had never played with a GURPS wizard before? The player who will likely take this PC does NOT need to be a blaster--he quite likes being subtle, sneaky, and intelligent about problems, so I'm not worried about him running into the "GURPS mages are not blasters" issue that I see discussed quite often. I want to make sure he has SOME ranged attack Missile Spells, but I also want to be sure that he gets the full flavor of GURPS Magic's versatility and adaptability.

If it matters, I've collected most 4th Edition sourcebooks over the past year, so don't let unusual rules or spells from other books deter your suggestions. I'm quite intrigued by Thaumatology: Magical Styles, but don't want to get too complicated for a "back up game" of DF. (The goal is to use DF when the "main campaign" has to be paused for some reason--either the GM is sick or too many people can't make it, etc).

Finally, even though it's not true to the thread title, what other advice would you have for me, running a 150 point DF game for the first time? THe reason I am using 150 points is that I wanted the PCs to face "standard" monsters at first--orcs, goblins, some zombies--and be challenged, rather than just plow through them.

We played our last game with "full powered GURPS" (for the most part), including Tactical Shooting, and bits and pieces of Martial Arts (which simply wasn't quite as relevant in a shooty game). DF is very heavily Basic Set based, but I assume there are no real issues incorporating Martial Arts rules into it?

Thanks!

[apoc527]

By the way, I have reviewed the "Which Four PC Templates" thread. My pregens are: Knight, Thief, Scout, Wizard, Cleric, Barbarian and Ninja. The ninja doesn't seem to work as well at 150 points, but hey, people like ninja. I only have 5 players at max, and more like 4 for this DF game, so not all of these will be chosen. I'll probably recommend the "standard mix" of Knight, Cleric, Wizard and Scout/Thief to the group, but who am I to deny them a Ninja? :-)

[DouglasCole]

I am playing a Warrior-Saint in a DF game using Divine Favor. I recommend it unhesitatingly for flavor and Awesomeness.

[apoc527]

I bought Divine Favor a few days ago and will make time to look it over. Would you recommend that I choose either Divine Favor OR standard Clerics, or do you think they can be combined in the same game setting fairly?

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by apoc527

1. For the cleric, should I use the standard magic system or try one of the Divine Favor flavors of cleric? If I use the Divine Favor version, does that make the DF: Clerics book useless?

I would build both so your PC can choose and has a backup Cleric of a different flavor if that one dies.
However the basic magic system is probably simpler and more unified with the Wizard so your group will be learning the same rules together.

Originally Posted by apoc527

2. For the wizard, what 20 or so spells would you choose if you were playing GURPS DF for the first time and had never played with a GURPS wizard before? The player who will likely take this PC does NOT need to be a blaster--he quite likes being subtle, sneaky, and intelligent about problems, so I'm not worried about him running into the "GURPS mages are not blasters" issue that I see discussed quite often. I want to make sure he has SOME ranged attack Missile Spells, but I also want to be sure that he gets the full flavor of GURPS Magic's versatility and adaptability.

This one is so tough!
It really depends on he flavor and what I would do would build several alternate spell lists based on the players I had in my game who were liekly to pick a Wizard.

I find picking a spell list to be easiest if I choose one or more high end spells then get the required spells. then with what I have left over I go for other stuff. The following may help.
GURPS Magic Spell Charts
(and long as I am looking for free stuff here is the Martial Arts Cheat Sheet

For sneaky and sheer versatility I like the Illusion and Light and Darkness colleges.
Air gives you some good combat with Lighting, Ball Lightning and Concussion for missile spells and some nice utility and defense.
Earth is nice but kind of price FP wise.
Protection and Warning gives you some good utility for not very many points.
Information is handy but can circumvent plots and not easily useful in a fight.
Fire is a classic, if overdone and IMHO kind of overrated.
Water also adds utility but is a lot like Fire, but handy for long term adventuring, as is Food.
Meta is awesome but really needs another college to work with and also kind of pricey so a good long term development kind of thing.
I also like Animal (A lot) and Plant but there more the Druids niche.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by apoc527

I bought Divine Favor a few days ago and will make time to look it over. Would you recommend that I choose either Divine Favor OR standard Clerics, or do you think they can be combined in the same game setting fairly?

Just to avoid any disappointment or confusion, the warrior-saint is in Pyramid #36. It uses the Divine Favor rules, but the template isn't actually in Divine Favor.

[apoc527]

Originally Posted by RyanW

Just to avoid any disappointment or confusion, the warrior-saint is in Pyramid #36. It uses the Divine Favor rules, but the template isn't actually in Divine Favor.

Don't worry, I seem to have picked that up a few days ago as well when I started going through e23 and clicking "Add to Cart." I'm sure this "problem" is something many on this forum have experienced. It's just much more acute for me, since I didn't get back into GURPS until around November last year...and let's just say I've gone "all in." Extremely. ;-)

Edit: Now that I think about it, I think I bought the DF Pyramid first, on account of me running this game, saw the article on Divine Favor, then went and picked up Divine Favor itself. That makes more sense anyway.

[apoc527]

Originally Posted by Refplace

I find picking a spell list to be easiest if I choose one or more high end spells then get the required spells. then with what I have left over I go for other stuff. The following may help.
GURPS Magic Spell Charts
(and long as I am looking for free stuff here is the Martial Arts Cheat Sheet

For sneaky and sheer versatility I like the Illusion and Light and Darkness colleges.
Air gives you some good combat with Lighting, Ball Lightning and Concussion for missile spells and some nice utility and defense.
Earth is nice but kind of price FP wise.
Protection and Warning gives you some good utility for not very many points.
Information is handy but can circumvent plots and not easily useful in a fight.
Fire is a classic, if overdone and IMHO kind of overrated.
Water also adds utility but is a lot like Fire, but handy for long term adventuring, as is Food.
Meta is awesome but really needs another college to work with and also kind of pricey so a good long term development kind of thing.
I also like Animal (A lot) and Plant but there more the Druids niche.

That's a good suggestion, thanks. I went through e23 and harvested all the free stuff back before I started buying books, and I'm pleased to get some use out of those Magic Charts. What are some good "high end" spells to focus on, without getting too combat focused?

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by apoc527

2. For the wizard, what 20 or so spells would you choose if you were playing GURPS DF for the first time and had never played with a GURPS wizard before? The player who will likely take this PC does NOT need to be a blaster--he quite likes being subtle, sneaky, and intelligent about problems, so I'm not worried about him running into the "GURPS mages are not blasters" issue that I see discussed quite often. I want to make sure he has SOME ranged attack Missile Spells, but I also want to be sure that he gets the full flavor of GURPS Magic's versatility and adaptability.

Something I'd like to try would be a Wizard specialized in the Movement college. Its basic spells are Apportation and Haste, both of which lead to an impressive array of useful utility and combat spells. Haste leads to Grease, Glue and Hinder for debuffing and battlefield control, and Great Haste is an incredibly potent buff on any fighter. Apportation opens up Locksmith (great for buffing the Thief to get through tricky locks), Levitation & Flight for mobility, Poltergeist & Winged Knife for direct fire capability, and Deflect Missile & Missile Shield for defense. The only downside is that Teleport and its ilk are generally banned for DF PCs, making the highest tier of Movement spells unusable.

[apoc527]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

Something I'd like to try would be a Wizard specialized in the Movement college. Its basic spells are Apportation and Haste, both of which lead to an impressive array of useful utility and combat spells. Haste leads to Grease, Glue and Hinder for debuffing and battlefield control, and Great Haste is an incredibly potent buff on any fighter. Apportation opens up Locksmith (great for buffing the Thief to get through tricky locks), Levitation & Flight for mobility, Poltergeist & Winged Knife for direct fire capability, and Deflect Missile & Missile Shield for defense. The only downside is that Teleport and its ilk are generally banned for DF PCs, making the highest tier of Movement spells unusable.

"Can I have Teleport? Please?? Pleeeeeeeease?"

"Sure, but you gain this minor disadvantage: Enemy (Watchers at the Edge of Time, Hunter, 12 or less), -60 points. Too bad for you that the disad limit is -50 points. You get this trait anyway. But at least you can Teleport!"

Mwahahahahahahaha. I'm sure some groups would take that.