Bronze Age Greece On A Shoestring Budget

[Jukkaimaru]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

Greek hoplites are Iron Age. Subtract about 800 years for Bronze Age.

I did an early Greek hoplite and a lte Greek hoplite for the upcoming Loadouts book. The early one clad all in Bronze cost $9,292 but the last one using a leather spolas cost $3295. The Macedonian in layered linen armour cost $3,464

Funnily enough I was just looking at the section in Low-Tech talking about that; you're dead right on their society technically being Iron Age but it also mentions a lot of Iron Age societies still used bronze for their armor and gear, so that only really helps slightly.

I guess I'll have to wait for that book and see exactly how you got those lower costs--I take it part of it has to do with not having to pony up for the gigantically expensive bronze Corinthian helm? ;)

[DanHoward]

Originally Posted by Jukkaimaru

Funnily enough I was just looking at the section in Low-Tech talking about that; you're dead right on their society technically being Iron Age

Hope so I wrote it :)

Here is a Macedonian phalangite wearing a linen kotthubos and a bronze kausia - pot helm with cheek guards

Chitôn (linen tunic) $48
Kotthubos $263
Ptyruges $38
Knèmides (bronze greaves) $2,200
Sandals $25
Kausia (bronze helmet) $890
TOTAL $3,464

[Jukkaimaru]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

Hope so I wrote it :)

Well then! XD

Thanks for the numbers. Is this particular Loadouts book going to be another Low-Tech companion volume, sir?

[DanHoward]

Originally Posted by Jukkaimaru

Well then! XD

Thanks for the numbers. Is this particular Loadouts book going to be another Low-Tech companion volume, sir?

Don't know whether it is going to a part of the Loadouts series or part of the Low-Tech series. It uses the Low-Tech stats so I'm guessing it will be part of that series.

[Jukkaimaru]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

Don't know whether it is going to a part of the Loadouts series or part of the Low-Tech series. It uses the Low-Tech stats so I'm guessing it will be part of that series.

All right then, I'll keep an eye out for it when it hits! Thanks. :)

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

Hope so I wrote it :)

Here is a Macedonian phalangite wearing a linen kotthubos and a bronze kausia - pot helm with cheek guards

Chitôn (linen tunic) $48
Kotthubos $263
Ptyruges $38
Knèmides (bronze greaves) $2,200
Sandals $25
Kausia (bronze helmet) $890
TOTAL $3,464

And 2/3 of the cost is bronze greaves? Are greaves really twice as valuable in a fight as all the rest of your armor put together?

[Purple Haze]

I don't know if the Greeks did it but, to save weight the Romans would wear only the left greave (in a phalanx one fights presenting the shield and refusing the weapon). And for a similar but diferent reason, only the right vambrace (what is the Latin, "manica"?) (left arm is "safe" behind the shield).

Doesn't really work in the GURPS rules, just as easy to target the refused side as the presented one.

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by Purple Haze

Doesn't really work in the GURPS rules, just as easy to target the refused side as the presented one.

It does if you use the Focused Defense rule from MA: Gladiators, but that rule clearly wasn't tested enough. It creates problems for gladiators ("to use my shield properly, I reduce the reach of my sword to C, but if I advance to reach C I can't use my shield?"), let alone the other weird and wonderful types of combat which are common in GURPS.

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by malloyd

And 2/3 of the cost is bronze greaves? Are greaves really twice as valuable in a fight as all the rest of your armor put together?

Real greaves are an exceptionally intricate piece of armour. The knee and thigh have a very complex shape, and any failure to match it brings pain. In addition, Greek greaves were usually sprung on. The only alternative was to just cover the front of the shins ... but that doesn't seem to have been very popular in the Classical and Hellenistic worlds. In GURPS terms, just protecting the Front lets you halve cost.

In that example, I think the helmet should have +9 CF for single-piece construction. A One-Piece (+9 CF) Bronze (+3 CF) Light Plate Skull (20%) would be $2600 plus a bit for padding. But maybe in the Hellenistic period someone in Macedonia started to make multi-piece helmet bowls ...

The first time and place where we have detailed figures for the price of different types of armour is England in 1300. We have very little evidence of the cost of Greek hopla, just that in the archaic the men who served as hoplites were not much poorer than the men who served as cavalry, and that the class expanded over time due to a combination of economic growth and reduced expectations about kit.

[Jukkaimaru]

Originally Posted by Polydamas

The only alternative was to just cover the front of the shins ... but that doesn't seem to have been very popular in the Classical and Hellenistic worlds.

Yeah, all the pictures of the greaves of hoplites I can recall seeing show the leg fully encased in bronze. Rather unfortunate, actually. XD