Subtle Indication of 'non-resisting' use HP for Knockback calculation?

[Bruno]

I've commented on the "Wait, slams from behind work like slams from in front?" thing before. Ignoring questions of defence/surprise, once the slam actually happens, contact is made, and dice are rolled, it does seem odd.

If a DX roll to avoid falling over does get rolled, a penalty seems in order. -4 for behind, -2 from the side for "harsh" version, -2/-1 for a "kinder gentler"?

[Agent]

Also seems pretty common in comics for someone hit from behind to go down easier or suffer knockback from the proverbial blindside body block.

I suppose a penalty on the 'stay standing' roll might be warranted (though if they travel further this would already be covered).

EDIT:

Blargh, missed the last post there!

Anyway, I could be on-board for that, Bruno. I'd personally go with the harsher. Assuming I wouldn't use a reduced knockback resist equation for the victim.

[kirbwarrior]

Something I've noticed is that knockback seems awfully hard to do already, considering that ST-2 (or HP-2) damage knocks you back one yard. This makes it very hard to knock someone back already. Maybe the rules need to make it easier for unresisting targets?

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

Something I've noticed is that knockback seems awfully hard to do already, considering that ST-2 (or HP-2) damage knocks you back one yard. This makes it very hard to knock someone back already. Maybe the rules need to make it easier for unresisting targets?

Take a 200-lb chunk of metal. Take a five-pound sledge to it with your full strength; once and once only. How far back does it move? How far back do you expect it to move? (And how far back do you want it to move?)

GURPS says that a 200-lb chunk of metal has 46 HP. Its' not going to suffer a yard of knockback from that blow. Technically, it should move 5 inches back. (6/(46-2) yards.) A generic human should technically be knocked back 2 feet, 3 inches by the same blow; also less than a yard. (6/(10-2) yards.)

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by Icelander

A Slam uses completely different rules from Takedowns, which means that your proposed rule is also a houserule, but not one that solves the fundamental problem of mass alone being relevant to how difficult something is to knock backwards or knock over in the Slam rules.

I use your MoS/2 on your attempted Slam as adding to your damage. So if you can AoA and Telegraph you stand a MUCH better chance of dropping someone than if they're prepared.

I also use HP as mass in all areas where mass should matter instead of ST.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

Take a 200-lb chunk of metal. Take a five-pound sledge to it with your full strength; once and once only. How far back does it move? How far back do you expect it to move? (And how far back do you want it to move?)

Realistically, of course, the shape of the chunk is more than a little relevant. If it's long and narrow, a blow near the top or bottom will probably knock it over.

It's this aspect that I find is severely lacking in the RAW. A man-sized super trying to knock over a giant will not be aiming at his center mass if he can help it. And when I tried to use the collision rules to figure out how a PC flying at 80 mph could knock over a drawbridge after he had cut the chains that were holding it up (so that he need only start it moving and gravity would do the rest), I found them no help at all. Hitting a sheet of material standing precariously on one end didn't change the HP value and didn't make any difference to the collision rules.

Needless to say, I made my own ruling. On the other hand, I don't like the collision rules being useless for much of what I would like them to do.

[Agent]

Knockback and hit location considerations...

Can one do 3 or 4 yards of knockback from a hit to the hand? Or at such extremes does that mean the hand is what flies that far? Heh.

I have the image of someone with hefty hand DR getting kicked there and going flying hand-first...

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

A generic human should technically be knocked back 2 feet, 3 inches by the same blow; also less than a yard. (6/(10-2) yards.)

Which sadly means he doesn't move one bit in combat.

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

Which sadly means he doesn't move one bit in combat.

GURPS has granularity issues sometimes, yep!

[kirbwarrior]

Actually, on that note, since it's pretty close to a yard, I might try a house rule so that something close to pushing someone still has a chance to.

Another note, it seems really hard to knock back big things at all. Two giants with mauls might be able to knock the other back a yard or two at max, regardless of how big said giants are.

EDIT: It occurs to me these might not actually be problems. What it amounts to is that the amount of damage for knockback to occur is more than enough to take someone out (over 1/2 HP). I honestly don't know how realistic this is, so maybe I'm fretting over nothing.