Subtle Indication of 'non-resisting' use HP for Knockback calculation?

[Agent]

GURPS Knockback blurb out of campaigns:

If the target has no ST score at all (like a wall), or is not resisting, use its HP instead.

The inanimate without ST like a wall part I get, but 'not resisting'?

I can only presume this isn't to mean a given biped with more HP than ST can say 'I'm not resisting' and gain a benefit. And also that it isn't to mean a given biped who cannot resist (unaware of attack perhaps, or by some trick unconscious and upright) can do this.

Even with realistic small variances between the two stats, its seemingly off, so...what does that latter mean? What has a ST score that is not resisting to indicate what this references?

[Refplace]

HP typically represent mass so if your not resisting or braced against an impact that impact still has to overcome your passive resistance by mass or inertia.

[Agent]

But a ST 10, HP 13 fighter is thus harder to knockback when he is dead weight than if he's resisting.

One might as well say 'use the higher of ST or HP for knockback' if going this route. As far as I knew, this wasn't done.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Agent

But a ST 10, HP 13 fighter is thus harder to knockback when he is dead weight than if he's resisting.

One might as well say 'use the higher of ST or HP for knockback' if going this route. As far as I knew, this wasn't done.

I agree, use the higher.

[Agent]

There is additional indication in Supers of this as another sort of off-hand reference under 'Strength and Weight' on pg. 25, referring to HP 'knockback benefits'.

[Bruno]

It's a popular house rule to just use HP and be done with it. Higher-of-ST-or-HP fits comic-book reality better, though.

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by Agent

The inanimate without ST like a wall part I get, but 'not resisting'?

I can only presume this isn't to mean a given biped with more HP than ST can say 'I'm not resisting' and gain a benefit. And also that it isn't to mean a given biped who cannot resist (unaware of attack perhaps, or by some trick unconscious and upright) can do this.

It is meant to do those things. Something with more HP than ST would be foolish to 'resist'; likewise, something that cannot resist can (and does!) do this.

Sometimes (carefully applied and selective) non-resistance is the answer.

[Icelander]

I've always felt it's strange that it's equally hard to knock a braced, prepared ST 15, HP 20 linebacker to the ground or at least backward than it is to do the same thing by rushing him from the back or side while he's unaware and/or unbalanced.

Someone running and hit from the side will have a harder time resisting being knocked out of line and even falling down than someone leaning forward to resist being pushed back. Why isn't there some function that emulates this, like a multiple of HP that is used when unaware and another that reflects balance? I really hate that there is no benefit to sacking a blissfully unaware guy while he's in the air, vs. one ready and prepared for the impact.

An optional defence against Slams and other knockback attacks could then be an attempt to push back, which would be a technique based off an unarmed Parry and get fairly phat bonuses for not actually preventing harm, but in return allowed you to make a reduced-effect standing Slam of your own and/or made your ST/HP higher for knockback purposes if that made no sense (against Shoves and such).

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Icelander

I've always felt it's strange that it's equally hard to knock a braced, prepared ST 15, HP 20 linebacker to the ground or at least backward than it is to do the same thing by rushing him from the back or side while he's unaware and/or unbalanced.

Well Wrestling and other grappling skills give you a bonus to resist a Takedown which I would apply to your linebacker example.
However I agree its not rally RAW more a judgement call and Slams really area part of the Unarmed and grappling combat that need adjusting.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Refplace

Well Wrestling and other grappling skills give you a bonus to resist a Takedown which I would apply to your linebacker example.
However I agree its not rally RAW more a judgement call and Slams really area part of the Unarmed and grappling combat that need adjusting.

A Slam uses completely different rules from Takedowns, which means that your proposed rule is also a houserule, but not one that solves the fundamental problem of mass alone being relevant to how difficult something is to knock backwards or knock over in the Slam rules.