Accessory vs Power

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

This is not necessarily the case. For some good examples of "Accessory"-like perks, check out Ergokinesis in Psi Powers (pg 35). Light Amplification doesn't mimic any specific flashlight, doesn't require batteries, and isn't subject to being broken. It just lets the character focus light in an area around himself. It's not really superior to a flashlight, except in being less vulnerable.

That description makes it a classic example of Perk-creep, IMO.

Basically, Accessory lets a character emulate the abilities of one particular device, but not necessarily by having the device physically built-in.

Actually, per B100:

"Your body incorporates a tool or
other useful gadget (e.g., a siren or a
vacuum cleaner)..."

What makes it only a Perk is that it's really not much better than buying an object that you hold in your hand or clip to your gear.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

That description makes it a classic example of Perk-creep, IMO.




Actually, per B100:

"Your body incorporates a tool or
other useful gadget (e.g., a siren or a
vacuum cleaner)..."

What makes it only a Perk is that it's really not much better than buying an object that you hold in your hand or clip to your gear.

Maybe so, but it is quite definitely crept from that definition. PU2 and PP both use it for powers that are roughly equivalent to incorporating a tool or gadget.

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Maybe so, but it is quite definitely crept from that definition. PU2 and PP both use it for powers that are roughly equivalent to incorporating a tool or gadget.

The result would be you can build a godlike being for very few points at TL10.

Forcefield projector (but not a projector, just the effect)[1]
Morphing armor (but not armor, just the effect) [1]
Onboard battlecomp (but not a computer, just the effect)[1]
Grav flight-belt (but not a belt, just the effect)[1]
...

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

No, it's not.

Weapons are not permitted as accessories, you know.

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

The result would be you can build a godlike being for very few points at TL10.

Forcefield projector (but not a projector, just the effect)[1]
Morphing armor (but not armor, just the effect) [1]
Onboard battlecomp (but not a computer, just the effect)[1]
Grav flight-belt (but not a belt, just the effect)[1]
...

Well, except that at least some of those are not allowed as accessories (armor is excluded, isn't it?), I really have to go with sure-and-why-not?

The computer is basically standard in THS, but may not do some of the things you're presuming it would (and it needs to be loaded with software). The belt might work if it's allowed.

If anything I'd lean to calling the high actual-rules point cost of the field projector and armor are the problematic bit, not the cheapness of being able to have the stunning abilities that are available to basically anyone at no point cost.

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

... Well, except that at least some of those are not allowed as accessories (armor is excluded, isn't it?), I really have to go with sure-and-why-not?

Yes, I would think armor is excluded too, by the same text as shields and weapons. I was letting two discussions mingle by mistake.

[Figleaf23]

Ryan, Bruno, thanks. I see now I completely misread what RPK said.

Sorry RPK.

[Mailanka]

Hmmm, I've wondered this often regarding cybernetics. The implant computer is one point (actually 6, because you gain photographic memory, though I'm not clear why this is separated out). While I'll grant that this is a tiny computer, as it increases in complexity, you can gain access to things like targeting programs and augmented reality for +1 to vision. These are not non-combat bonuses (though one can argue that a flashlight gives "combat bonuses" in a similar fashion).

But then we flip to implant radios, and those are designed the actual telecommunication advantage, not an accessory (Radio). Why not? Why design it with an advantage and not an accessory? It would seem to me, especially in an ultratech setting, that a radio is less powerful than a computer, and yet the radio costs more.

I don't really follow the logic of this. Why accessory(tiny computer) but not accessory(radio)?

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

The result would be you can build a godlike being for very few points at TL10.

Forcefield projector (but not a projector, just the effect)[1]
Morphing armor (but not armor, just the effect) [1]
Onboard battlecomp (but not a computer, just the effect)[1]
Grav flight-belt (but not a belt, just the effect)[1]
...

". . . provides minor, noncombat benefits not otherwise covered by a specific advantage." (p. B100)

The first two clearly provide combat benefits. The fourth provides benefits that are far from minor.

Not all technological devices count as "minor." A flashlight, a shovel, a siren, a vacuum cleaner, and the like are modestly priced and provide benefits that are smaller than the most nearly equivalent advantages. I'd allow the computer, since Transhuman Space treats having a computer as part of one's physical makeup as a perk, but the battle software's a different story.

Bill Stoddard

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by whswhs

". . . provides minor, noncombat benefits not otherwise covered by a specific advantage." (p. B100)

The first two clearly provide combat benefits. The fourth provides benefits that are far from minor.

Not all technological devices count as "minor." A flashlight, a shovel, a siren, a vacuum cleaner, and the like are modestly priced and provide benefits that are smaller than the most nearly equivalent advantages. I'd allow the computer, since Transhuman Space treats having a computer as part of one's physical makeup as a perk, but the battle software's a different story.

Bill Stoddard

Indeed. As noted to another poster, I incorrectly conflated another concern into those examples.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

What makes it only a Perk is that it's really not much better than buying an object that you hold in your hand or clip to your gear.

I believe "flashlight built into hand" an an Accessory perk is balanced with "can project beam of light from hand" as a power perk, since the former is subject to battery drain, breakage, etc. and the latter to whatever limitations your power normally suffers.