knockback vs trees

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

Hmm, that makes me think that taking ST-2 (or 80% of ST, which makes far more sense to me) damage is enough to uproot it, considering how much damage that must be.

Uh...how big a tree do you think a person can uproot by hitting it with a mace?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Uh...how big a tree do you think a person can uproot by hitting it with a mace?

Root systems obviously confer resistance to Knockback.

[Kuroshima]

hey, I've inflicted knockback on trees, and ended up no worse for the fact! It's what happens when you accidentally collide with a potted bonsai ;) (and I was lucky the bonsai ended up in one of the cushioned chairs, so no harm done it it).

Mind you, anything larger than an inch thick sapling will be catastrophic for whatever collides with it, unless it's many orders of magnitude bigger. Obviously, an OGRE will go over quite large trees without noticing it...

[DanHoward]

I've seen a few insurance claims where the claimant wrote that the tree jumped out in front of them.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

I've seen a few insurance claims where the claimant wrote that the tree jumped out in front of them.

When I used to work in a bicycle shop, we had a similar phrase people used to use when they brought in a piece of aerospace-grade material (titanium, carbon fiber, aluminum) mangled beyond repair and asking for warranty.

We called it "JRA."

"Well, I was Just Riding Along, when . . . "

[Refplace]

Sesile alone does not just fit. You can be a rock and sessile and the normal KNB rules apply. However trees are more then just Sesile the root system is like a very powerful form of bracing. They are not just unable to move under their own power, they are anchored and actively resisting being moved (mostly they expect to b moved by wind not people but the same biology applies)

And there seems to be a difference of topic here.
I hear knock a tree over or uproot and break I think two very different things.
You can chop a tree down or do enough damage to the trunk to cause it to fall over and have killed it. However actually uprooting the tree means enough force applied in sch a way that you pulled it out of the ground and exposed a significant part of the root system.
And that uprooting will take a lot more force then just cracking the trunk and knocking the tree down.

The first part we have the rules for. It is the HP of the tree, how much is to chop it down? I say when its dead so quite a few HP.

The second part is the uprooting and I will go with my first response. The tree is effectively grabbing the ground so you need to overcome its ST or the weight of the ground it has grabbed in its roots.
Somewhere there is a weight per hex of dirt or I used to have it but I don't know at the moment.

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by Refplace

Somewhere there is a weight per hex of dirt or I used to have it but I don't know at the moment.

2.63g/cm3, roughly, so a m3 of soil is roughly 5,842 lb (or 2,650 kg, if you prefer). Assuming no air voids and whatnot.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

2.63g/cm3, roughly, so a m3 of soil is roughly 5,842 lb (or 2,650 kg, if you prefer). Assuming no air voids and whatnot.

I love these forums.
Ok so a tree with just a 1 hex root system (a sapling really) need to hold onto that, lets call it BL*20 more then Extra Heavy Enc since you cant move while holding that much and the math is easy.

ST 38 for .98 hexes which is close enough to cover aeration and such.
ST 50 for 1.71 hexes
ST100 for 6 hexes

Hmm results on a sapling give it too many HP I think.
To get a reasonable projection would have to take a given tree and determine root structure by height, convert to SM for a nice table and also figure out by mass the trees HP. Trouble is this varies a lot by type of tree.
I might bother for a race of tree people or if a specific situation came up in a game and I had a specific tree to work with.
Normally though its a good eyeball figure to just say you have to be able to lift that much mass (dirt plus the tree itself) in order to completely uproot the tree. Destroying it is much easier.

[William]

This thread makes me realize that there really ought to be a rule for defending yourself against knockback. As it stands, I don't see any rule in Campaigns for doing so. The various Fat disads, Immovable Stance (cinematic skill), Perfect Balance, and the roll against DX, Acrobatics, and Judo seem to be the only defenses. Even the box on defending against charging foes in Martial Arts doesn't say.

Yet suppose I'm being charged by a bruiser, much bigger than me, who obviously intends to slam me. I have someone behind me I'm protecting and refuse to get out of the way. What do I do?

I put a foot behind me and brace myself.

I'm obviously attempting to increase my resistance to knockback. How well have I succeeded?

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by William

Yet suppose I'm being charged by a bruiser, much bigger than me, who obviously intends to slam me. I have someone behind me I'm protecting and refuse to get out of the way. What do I do?

I put a foot behind me and brace myself.

I'm obviously attempting to increase my resistance to knockback. How well have I succeeded?

Yeah you should be able to brace for it. Maybe treat as Quick Contest of ST?
Probably a cap for terrain and number of legs.