Cultural Consequences of Rapid Technological Uplift

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by ericthered

This of course assumes that the two cultures are mingling rather than one doing something like telling just a few people how to make the tech

There is simply no way to keep that kind of thing secret... especially when going up 6 TLs.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

There is simply no way to keep that kind of thing secret... especially when going up 6 TLs.

Not the event... the culture. Rather than thinking about societies where the higher tech culture moved in and OUTNUMBERED the natives, think about one where you are giving them technology without moving in.

The example is much meeker, but the modernization of Arab countries is closer. Yeah, you are only jumping a few tech levels, but they didn't do the inventing and they aren't being swarmed with the other people.

[Flyndaran]

That reminds me of a ST:TNG episode in which a diplomat decided to "uphold" the prime directive by giving both sides of a conflict equal tech and fire power.

Yeah, not nice planet after that.

What would Cardinal Richelieu, King Richard, etc. have done with nukes?

[Sindri]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

That reminds me of a ST:TNG episode in which a diplomat decided to "uphold" the prime directive by giving both sides of a conflict equal tech and fire power.

Yeah, not nice planet after that.

What would Cardinal Richelieu, King Richard, etc. have done with nukes?

"Too Short a Season" I believe? It was something of a reference to "A Private Little War" from TOS I suspect.

I think people would react to nukes much as we did. They would be capable of realizing when war isn't profitable anymore.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Sindri

"Too Short a Season" I believe? It was something of a reference to "A Private Little War" from TOS.

I think people would react to nukes much as we did. They would be capable of realizing when war isn't profitable anymore.

I'm not so sure. And even if I agreed, it would only be after a full exchange of bombs making a very long lasting mess and resentment towards their benefactors.
Look at how many want to bomb BLANK back to the stone age for being/doing/believing BLANK. I have a hard time believing that a TL 4 most likely heavily religious society would be less prone to that ideology.

[Sindri]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

I'm not so sure. And even if I agreed, it would only be after a full exchange of bombs making a very long lasting mess and resentment towards their benefactors.
Look at how many want to bomb BLANK back to the stone age for being/doing/believing BLANK. I have a hard time believing that a TL 4 most likely heavily religious society would be less prone to that ideology.

Almost certainly TL 4 people wouldn't learn how to deal with nukes without at least a demonstration and probably an exchange even if one sided. I don't see the stockpiling necessary for what we think of as a full exchange happening though.

A blows up B's City.
B blows up A's city.
Everyone figures out that the use of nukes necessitates having a possible benefit above the risk of losing a city.

Also note that TL 4 includes the Peace of Westphalia which allows societies to deal with other societies that have different religions a lot better.

Resentment can lead to interesting things so it's not necessarily bad but even if A or B withdraws from their dealings with their benefactors that wouldn't stop others interacting.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Sindri

...
Resentment can lead to interesting things so it's not necessarily bad but even if A or B withdraws from their dealings with their benefactors that wouldn't stop others interacting.

Yeah, the personal rewards would be too great. It would be like having an abusive but gift giving relative when you're otherwise homeless and living on dumpster diving. You take it, but you really don't like it.

Still TL 4 to TL 10 is nearly god like and will lead to cults for and against the benefactors more often than simple business/gifting arrangements.

[Jonas]

Originally Posted by Sindri

Almost certainly TL 4 people wouldn't learn how to deal with nukes without at least a demonstration and probably an exchange even if one sided. I don't see the stockpiling necessary for what we think of as a full exchange happening though.

A blows up B's City.
B blows up A's city.
Everyone figures out that the use of nukes necessitates having a possible benefit above the risk of losing a city.

Also note that TL 4 includes the Peace of Westphalia which allows societies to deal with other societies that have different religions a lot better.

Resentment can lead to interesting things so it's not necessarily bad but even if A or B withdraws from their dealings with their benefactors that wouldn't stop others interacting.

On the other hand at that TL warfare wasn't as 'civilized' as we consider it now and wiping out an enemy city didn't provoke as much of a response as it would now. Its entirely possible this could lead to NBC weapons being used with much less stigma attached to them, at least initially.

[Sindri]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

Going by comparable shifts in history, a disproportionate amount would go to the perks of power at first, like luxuries and military spending. Military technology usually gets taken more eagerly for the survival consequences of being behind in that are obvious. Whereas other aspects might pay more attention to cultural difficulties.

Yep. The parable of the tribes will mean that societies that focus less on military technology will have difficulty competing with those who focus more on military technology. Of course they might not be helped out as much in military technology.

Originally Posted by ericthered

An uneven spread of technologies. They might end up with Lots of infrastructure and not much to use it with. Housing may still look TL4 even though they have TL 10 gagdets.

Socially you may have a literacy problem. the ability to read and write is not terribly widespread in TL4 (its not as atrocious as whats under it though). Fixing this will need to be a major part of your uplift. In the short term, pictographic instructions on items will be incredibly wide spread. Either that or only the literate can use the newest stuff.

Right. What sort of effects do you think uneven tech will have that persists after the tech evens out?

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

There is simply no way to keep that kind of thing secret... especially when going up 6 TLs.

There is a middle ground between secretly developing a societies technology and engulfing their society within your own. Of course there will be substantial transfer from the society with greater technology but there is at least some difference between "Take this stuff and use it like we do!" and "Here's some stuff, now what are you going to do with it?"