Discarding Cards

[Clipper]

Yeah, the Race and Class Enhancers are different to the Item-based Enhancers. Cheat! and the Item Enhancers you mention can't be separated from their attached items to discard them. In order to discard them, you need to discard the Item they are attached to as well.

You can only count this as multiple discards for powers that are worded to allow you to discard multiple cards at once. For example, if you had an Air-Cooled Horny Helmet as a Warrior, you can discard the pair to get a +2 in combat. Yet, if you were a Thief, you would only get one theft attempt by discarding the combo as the Theft text specifically says to discard one card then roll to steal.

[Udeliens]

So I can discard Master, Dark and other Race/class enhancers to power up an ability, but i can't do that with item enhancers and the cheat card?

I still feel that u could discard them too... since a cheated item for instance, will not disappear, u just won't be able to use it anymore...
And if u see the REINFORCED card, they'r pillows attached into your armor... why can't you just take the pillows off?

[Clipper]

It's not covered in the rules nor in the current version of the FAQ, I believe, but MunchkinMan addresses it in my following quote and he has may similar posts saying the same thing.

Originally Posted by MunchkinMan

Hmmmmm. . . Any time a card is permanently attached to another, discarding one would force the discard of the other. That's 2 cards you're discarding, and I don't see that they count as anything else. We are talking about cards, and not Items or Races that you are specifically discarding, yes? If the ability you are using says to discard an Item, than anything attached to an Item would go, but it's still one Item.

One problem with that post is that he does define Class and Race Enhancers as permanently attached as well later in that thread, which is in direct conflict with the statement from the FAQ. Hopefully we'll get some confirmation on the matter soon.

[MunchkinMan]

Originally Posted by Clipper

It's not covered in the rules nor in the current version of the FAQ, I believe, but MunchkinMan addresses it in my following quote and he has may similar posts saying the same thing.


One problem with that post is that he does define Class and Race Enhancers as permanently attached as well later in that thread, which is in direct conflict with the statement from the FAQ. Hopefully we'll get some confirmation on the matter soon.

If you're going to quote me, then point out an issue with further, unquoted, information in the post quoted, how about providing a link so that I can go back and look at it and see where the disconnect is coming from and when the post was written. It's more than a little unfair to hold me to a FAQ entry that might not have even been written yet, and it's never a good idea to quote out of context. I've seen enough people do that here and take something so out of context in order to prove that night is day. In this case, it seems, without the question, the answer might not mean what you think it means.

[Clipper]

Originally Posted by MunchkinMan

If you're going to quote me, then point out an issue with further, unquoted, information in the post quoted, how about providing a link so that I can go back and look at it and see where the disconnect is coming from and when the post was written. It's more than a little unfair to hold me to a FAQ entry that might not have even been written yet, and it's never a good idea to quote out of context. I've seen enough people do that here and take something so out of context in order to prove that night is day. In this case, it seems, without the question, the answer might not mean what you think it means.

Sorry mate, I certainly didn't mean to cause offence and I did think I had provided enough information to find the other post for reference. I thought the link that I did provide in the quote itself (the blue arrow) was enough to find the other one as it was only three posts later in the same thread, but here's that post too, including its link as well:

Originally Posted by MunchkinMan

Why? And why does this come as a surprise? "Permanently" means things like Poisoned, Cheat, or Blessed (wrt Items) or Dark or Master (wrt Races and Classes). If we're talking about Fu, and we're talking about all those Items that are multi-layer Armor, that's just being worn together, not a permanent attachment. I think the Knight Light, too, could be discarded separately.

You said then that the class and race enhancers are permanently attached and in the other post that permanently attached cards are always discarded with cards they are attached to.

And for completeness, the FAQ question is:

Q. When can I play (or discard) Master, Dark, or High cards?
A. They can be played (or discarded) at at any time you would play (or discard) a Class or Race card.

Which heavily implies it's OK to discard an enhancer without discarding the card it is attached to.

And again, no offence meant and I don't blame you in any way for the discrepancy. I assume the FAQ was newer and hence overrides the older decision, but just wanted to point it out for an official clarification if anybody else followed my link in future and then also noticed that issue.

[MunchkinMan]

There were no blue arrows to follow on my browser, but on a different computer, they're now here. Most odd. . .

2008 is a long time ago, and before discussions, changes, and other thoughts had come about. I'll need to look further into Item Enhancers, but I can see how Race/Class Enhancers are entirely different.

[Udeliens]

I still dont get it... it seems to me that the answer is this:
- Race/Class Enhancers may be discarded for the purposes of an ability;
- Item/steed enhancers I should use common sense to what can be discarded;
- And cheat may never be discarded to power an ability...

Am I right?

[thedag]

Originally Posted by Clipper

Yeah, the Race and Class Enhancers are different to the Item-based Enhancers. Cheat! and the Item Enhancers you mention can't be separated from their attached items to discard them. In order to discard them, you need to discard the Item they are attached to as well.

You can only count this as multiple discards for powers that are worded to allow you to discard multiple cards at once. For example, if you had an Air-Cooled Horny Helmet as a Warrior, you can discard the pair to get a +2 in combat. Yet, if you were a Thief, you would only get one theft attempt by discarding the combo as the Theft text specifically says to discard one card then roll to steal.

maybe it is just me but ifinstructed to discard one card to power an ability i would not allow the discarding of two cards. So an item with cheat on it would not be allowed. i haven't looked at the other thread you quoted so I may be entering into house rule territory

[Clipper]

Originally Posted by thedag

maybe it is just me but ifinstructed to discard one card to power an ability i would not allow the discarding of two cards. So an item with cheat on it would not be allowed. i haven't looked at the other thread you quoted so I may be entering into house rule territory

I take it that you can discard the one item to power the ability, but the attachment goes with it meaning you can essentially choose whether it counts as one or two discards. Otherwise you'd run into problems with curses that say stuff like 'discard one Item of your choice'. If your only item is, say, a steed with a steed enhancer attached, you can't say 'It's protected because to discard it I'd need to discard two items'.

[thedag]

Originally Posted by Clipper

I take it that you can discard the one item to power the ability, but the attachment goes with it meaning you can essentially choose whether it counts as one or two discards. Otherwise you'd run into problems with curses that say stuff like 'discard one Item of your choice'. If your only item is, say, a steed with a steed enhancer attached, you can't say 'It's protected because to discard it I'd need to discard two items'.

yeah thats a good point. although now i remember that is why i specified powering an ability (IOW a voluntary discard) as opposed to curses/traps.