[PU4, Powers] What does Cosmic power modifier actually do?

[Captain-Captain]

A suggestion. "Cosmic" is also used as a power source like "Magic", which can cuase confusion. I like the OP's use of Primordial as a source name.

[Tuoni]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Immunity to non-Cosmic tier Affliction (Negated Advantage).

Doesn't really seem to be worth +50% does it?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Tuoni

Doesn't really seem to be worth +50% does it?

It's worth it for Striking-ST since it will protect it from any ST-draining effect. I'm not sure how Combat Reflexes is generally appropriate as part of a power in the first place.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Tuoni

Doesn't really seem to be worth +50% does it?

Does it help when I point out that Cosmic Combat Reflexes would provide the full bonus against Cosmic Terror (and Confusion) Fright Checks (which includes the Mythos Fright Checks from Cthulupunk)? And it would add to a Cosmic Active Defence against Cosmic "No Defense Roll" attacks.

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by Tuoni

But one thing I need to ask is, what benefit does the Cosmic PM give to something like Combat Reflexes, or Striking Strength over simply being Wild? +50% is not an insignificant amount.

Before we get to Cosmic over Wild, keep in mind that most games that use power modifiers will require "superhuman" feats to have one. Wild advantages (for racial/super/exotic traits) often won't be available, so you'd be choosing from moral, super, psi, nature, Cosmic etc, and Wild wouldn't enter into it. (That is just most, not all I understand) In that kind of setting, Cosmic is the only choice to prevent countermeasures.

You are NEVER denied your advantage. If your spirit is pulled into the astral plane, it will be a super strong spirit, even if another tank is told "Sorry, The strength of your muscle can't help you here" Yours can, it's Cosmic! If the villain Mind Switches with you thinking he'll get your ST, he'll be in a powerless body as all your Cosmic Strength went with you to his body.

And these great benefits you get for free as long as you pick another Cosmic of at least 50%! FREE!

That's right, We found it! The Free Lunch! WE FOUND THE FREE LUNCH!

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

Before we get to Cosmic over Wild, keep in mind that most games that use power modifiers will require "superhuman" feats to have one. Wild advantages (for racial/super/exotic traits) often won't be available, so you'd be choosing from moral, super, psi, nature, Cosmic etc, and Wild wouldn't enter into it. (That is just most, not all I understand) In that kind of setting, Cosmic is the only choice to prevent countermeasures.

I doubt that there many campaigns that make learnable mundane traits like Combat Reflexes unavailable without a Power.

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

I doubt that there many campaigns that make learnable mundane traits like Combat Reflexes unavailable without a Power.

that's why I said "Superhuman" and "(for racial/super/exotic traits) "

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

that's why I said "Superhuman" and "(for racial/super/exotic traits) "

His examples were Combat Reflexes and Striking ST. The former is basically available to anybody that doesn't have Combat Paralysis. The latter is available to anybody that has it as racial trait (and yes this is possible in campaigns with powers for example a Cat-Folk Bard in DF has Wild Striking ST and Bardic Powers) or with a Special Exercises Perk.

[Tuoni]

Okay, I've been convinced and withdraw my complaint. :)

Targeting the_matrix_walker since he made the argument that put me over the edge.

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

Before we get to Cosmic over Wild, keep in mind that most games that use power modifiers will require "superhuman" feats to have one. Wild advantages (for racial/super/exotic traits) often won't be available, so you'd be choosing from moral, super, psi, nature, Cosmic etc, and Wild wouldn't enter into it. (That is just most, not all I understand) In that kind of setting, Cosmic is the only choice to prevent countermeasures.

Wild abilities could be very common in a setting with Power Modifiers. It just requires a non-human racial templates be available. An up-lifted dolphin would have wild sonar for example.

Being setting specific, I don't agree with "You don't have a choice" being a meaningful reason for the cost of Cosmic vs Wild

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

You are NEVER denied your advantage. If your spirit is pulled into the astral plane, it will be a super strong spirit, even if another tank is told "Sorry, The strength of your muscle can't help you here" Yours can, it's Cosmic! If the villain Mind Switches with you thinking he'll get your ST, he'll be in a powerless body as all your Cosmic Strength went with you to his body.

This however, I honestly didn't think about.

When I read that you can't be denied, I really just thought of Afflict:Negate. But yeah, there can be a lot of environmental and body-transforming things that could cause a huge pain to a non-Cosmic power user.

The GM just needs to get creative. :)

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

And these great benefits you get for free as long as you pick another Cosmic of at least 50%! FREE!

That's right, We found it! The Free Lunch! WE FOUND THE FREE LUNCH!

Bah, you think its free, but its not. There is a price. There is ALWAYS a price.

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

His examples were Combat Reflexes and Striking ST. The former is basically available to anybody that doesn't have Combat Paralysis.

My Statements were qualified for exceptions. In every sentence in the first paragraph in fact.

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

The latter is available to anybody that has it as racial trait (and yes this is possible in campaigns with powers for example a Cat-Folk Bard in DF has Wild Striking ST and Bardic Powers) or with a Special Exercises Perk.

The underlying advantage is immaterial, the effects of the general Cosmic Modifiers persistence, regardless of situational factors, is what is relevant. I didn't reference wither of the powers he mentioned and just said ST as an example. Substitute whatever advantage you want.

I've never seen a "Cosmic Power" Modifier on a PC in any game but Supers, so forgive me if my assumptions point toward that Genre.

Combat Reflexes is unlikely to be added to a Cosmic Power, but if it was, it would benefit in the same ways the ST would, and it's bonuses would continue to apply in situations where they might otherwise be negated (as in the Cosmic Terror example), I might even allow Talent to add to those in some situations as well (but I would never add Talent to an Active Defense roll).