[PU4, Powers] What does Cosmic power modifier actually do?

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

That's what I don't understand. If I want Cosmic as a power modifier but nothing else -- neither "instantaneous accelaration", "retained speed", nor any other effects -- then how much does Cosmic power modifier cost? +50%? +0%? Or, should we regard Cosmic (Adding Utility, +50%) as a prerequisite for buying Cosmic power modifier?

Cosmic as a Power modifier costs 50%, (with a 50% rebate if you have any other Cosmic)

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

According to the rest of Powers book, it's more natural to interpret the phrase "any power, regardless of source" as including Cosmic power.

I understand the confusion, it's not 100% clear. But let't keep in mind Wild Advantages are also a source that cannot be neutralized despite that. It should never be better to have a Wild Power than a Cosmic one.

A low level Cosmic wipes out bigger offensive one's When Cosmic negates Cosmic, and neither ability it treated as having it, The Cosmic Power is then treated as Wild and can't be dampened.

Powers 21
Says "nothing can take away the wielder’s power – his abilities work on any world he visits, are present in any body he occupies, and so on."

"The basic +50% for a cosmic power enables the power’s abilities to work normally against attacks and opposing abilities enhanced with more expensive
Cosmic options."

Powers 26 "you always have access to them – nothing can neutralize your power or cut off its energy source."

Cosmic as a Power Modifier states just about everywhere it's printed that Cosmic Powers can't be taken away.

I think "any power, regardless of source" means "any source Neutralize could be otherwise purchased to work on" as Neutralize normally only works on ONE source.

[Kuroshima]

This power modifier counts as the first +50% of all Cosmic enhancements added to the power’s individual abilities. For instance, if the ability includes an irresistible attack, it costs +250% over and above the +50% in the power modifier, for a total of +300%.

The way it is written makes me think that if you have an ability with a Cosmic power modifier, you could stack as many Cosmic enhancements on it, and get a discount on all of them:

Burning Attack (PM: Cosmic, +50%; Cosmic, Irresistible Attack, +250%; Cosmic, No Active Defense, +250%; Cosmic, No Roll Required, +50%) [35]

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

The way it is written makes me think that if you have an ability with a Cosmic power modifier, you could stack as many Cosmic enhancements on it, and get a discount on all of them:) [35]

No, you add them together.

[cmdicely]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

The way it is written makes me think that if you have an ability with a Cosmic power modifier

I'm pretty sure the intent is for it to count as the first 50% of the cost of the total of all Cosmic modifiers applied to each ability in the power, rather than the first 50% of the cost of each Cosmic modifier applied to each ability in the power, though the current wording does seem to, at the least, admit your reading.

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

The way it is written makes me think that if you have an ability with a Cosmic power modifier, you could stack as many Cosmic enhancements on it, and get a discount on all of them:

Burning Attack (PM: Cosmic, +50%; Cosmic, Irresistible Attack, +250%; Cosmic, No Active Defense, +250%; Cosmic, No Roll Required, +50%) [35]

This would be just nuts, as most forms of Cosmic are 50% and that would mean you got ALL of them for paying for 1. Second Nature is three 50% Enhancements combined.

I can understand how it could be misconstrued, but the results of that interpretation result in an instant rejection of it as a possibility.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

That's what I don't understand. If I want Cosmic as a power modifier but nothing else -- neither "instantaneous accelaration", "retained speed", nor any other effects -- then how much does Cosmic power modifier cost? +50%? +0%? Or, should we regard Cosmic (Adding Utility, +50%) as a prerequisite for buying Cosmic power modifier?

I think the intent is that if you have a Cosmic tier in the setting, then having Cosmic enhancements qualifies you for it. If you don't have a Cosmic tier, then don't allow Cosmic PM (and in that case Cosmic mods just do whatever they do on non-Cosmic abilities).

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by cmdicely

I'm pretty sure the intent is for it to count as the first 50% of the cost of the total of all Cosmic modifiers applied to each ability in the power, rather than the first 50% of the cost of each Cosmic modifier applied to each ability in the power, though the current wording does seem to, at the least, admit your reading.

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

This would be just nuts, as most forms of Cosmic are 50% and that would mean you got ALL of them for paying for 1. Second Nature is three 50% Enhancements combined.

I can understand how it could be misconstrued, but the results of that interpretation result in an instant rejection of it as a possibility.

I was playing the munchkin's advocate. I would not allow you to get cheaper abilities by having them in a cosmic power, but the way it's written made some people ask (on the tune of "I know it sounds strange, and I assume I'm wrong, but what about...") when we had our Supers game.

[PK]

Originally Posted by cmdicely

I'm pretty sure the intent is for it to count as the first 50% of the cost of the total of all Cosmic modifiers applied to each ability in the power, rather than the first 50% of the cost of each Cosmic modifier applied to each ability in the power

This is correct. That's what was meant by "all" in that sentence -- "the total of all."

I like the "rebate" analogy for Cosmic PM. You pay the full +50% for Cosmic PM, but then you get a single 50% discount when you add one or more Cosmic enhancements to the advantage. If you never bother adding any, then you still pay the full +50%, mind you, so it makes sense to add one.

[Tuoni]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

This is correct. That's what was meant by "all" in that sentence -- "the total of all."

Yeah, the Cosmic PM is a case of really bad wording. I know my first reading of it went to the "each and every" meaning of "all", not "sum total".

But one thing I need to ask is, what benefit does the Cosmic PM give to something like Combat Reflexes, or Striking Strength over simply being Wild? +50% is not an insignificant amount.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Tuoni

But one thing I need to ask is, what benefit does the Cosmic PM give to something like Combat Reflexes, or Striking Strength over simply being Wild? +50% is not an insignificant amount.

Immunity to non-Cosmic tier Affliction (Negated Advantage).