[PU4, Powers] What does Cosmic power modifier actually do?

[Gurps Fan]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

No, Surfer's powers are actually supposed to be an order above that of any regular super. That's represented with the cosmics on all of them.

Does that mean that Silver Surfer has paid reasonable points for the effect that his abilities are uncounterable by mundane/regular super countermeasures? If so, I agree. I'm not saying otherwise.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

Does that mean that Silver Surfer has paid reasonable points for the effect that his abilities are uncounterable by mundane/regular super countermeasures? If so, I agree. I'm not saying otherwise.

I would say yes.
Of course it depends on who is building him but in the comics he is pretty much the most powerful non diety or abstract entity around. And his powers come directly from something like that and are invested in him not something he has to draw on his diety. He has been depowered a few times but hose were plot devices and no one is immune to that.

[Gurps Fan]

Originally Posted by Bruno

If you don't have any other Cosmic modifiers, just the power modifier, you still have a +50% cosmic on all your stuff.

On your defensive abilities, I'd say that makes them the standard +50% defensive cosmic - ie your defenses can't be bypassed by cosmic attacks. On all abilities, defense or non-defense, I'd say your abilities are ironclad against non-Cosmic attacks - your abilities can't be crippled, neutralized, static'd or whatever without the attacker having Cosmic. I'd

Sorry if I'm unclear. To make the point clearer, let's take an example: Enhanced Movement (Second Nature, +150%) (see PU4, p. 9). Actually, "Second Nature, +150%" is just a shorthand for the combination of certain three instances of +50%-level Cosmic. Should this Enhanced Movement (Second Nature, +150%) advantage be an ability as part of Cosmic power? If not, how many percent should it cost to adding Cosmic as power modifier?

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

Sorry if I'm unclear. To make the point clearer, let's take an example: Enhanced Movement (Second Nature, +150%) (see PU4, p. 9). Actually, "Second Nature, +150%" is just a shorthand for the combination of certain three instances of +50%-level Cosmic. Should this Enhanced Movement (Second Nature, +150%) advantage be an ability as part of Cosmic power? If not, how many percent should it cost to adding Cosmic as power modifier?

It would most likely be taken as part of a Cosmic power PM and background.
That level of movement and fine control breaks even Superhero physics.
So it would take an unusual background to justify it. However I can see a couple of ways. Manipulate reality, time control, thats all I can come up with at the moment but I am sure there are more.

So your likely to have Cosmic as a PM but might not be required to.
However if you do take it then that Second Nature enhancement only costs +100% by my reading.
Is that fair? Maybe not but it encourages Cosmic builds and the uncountreable thing can be overpriced compared to Wild which dont have to pay for it.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

Sorry if I'm unclear. To make the point clearer, let's take an example: Enhanced Movement (Second Nature, +150%) (see PU4, p. 9). Actually, "Second Nature, +150%" is just a shorthand for the combination of certain three instances of +50%-level Cosmic. Should this Enhanced Movement (Second Nature, +150%) advantage be an ability as part of Cosmic power??

It's right there in the writeup

This power modifier counts as the
first +50% of all Cosmic enhancements
added to the power’s
individual
abilities.
For instance, if the ability
includes
an irresistible attack, it costs
+250%
over and above the +50% in
the
power modifier,
for a total of
+300%.
See p.
101 for two additional

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

It's right there in the writeup

That disagrees with the version on Powers p26
P21 reads kind of odd.
Really one of these should have an Errata

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

Should this Enhanced Movement (Second Nature, +150%) advantage be an ability as part of Cosmic power? If not, how many percent should it cost to adding Cosmic as power modifier?

ANY Advantage can be part of a Cosmic Power

While a Cosmic Powered character could have speedster type abilities, This is not required to be a speedster. In fact, If you are building a speedster, you probably don't have to points to spend on a 15 point talent, and want to go with a more generic "Super" With a Speed Talent.

Having powers with Cosmic on them, doesn't mean you have COSMIC POWERS necessarily, it may simply be that your area of expertise makes Cosmic a logical choice to suit your powers from another source.

If you want your power to be Cosmic, and benefit from Cosmic Talent, and you have any level on Cosmic on it already, you can just say it is and be done. If there is no cosmic on it yet, it'll cost +50% (and you might as well pick out a cool +50% Cosmic effect to go on it)

[Gurps Fan]

I'm unclear I get the point, but as far as I understand the current RAW could be summarized as follows (?):

• Enhanced Move 1 (Ground) [20]
  Your maximum velocity is doubled but you're bothered with acceleration, turning radius, etc. This is a "raw" advantage, so it doesn't benefit from any power talent but Neutralize (even Cosmic one) has no effect on it.
  
  
• Enhanced Move 1 (Ground; Cosmic PM, +50%) [30]
  Your maximum velocity is doubled but you're bothered with acceleration, turning radius, etc. This ability belongs to Cosmic power, so it benefits from Cosmic power talent and immune to non-Cosmic Affliction (Negated Advantage), but Neutralize (Cosmic) can deprive you of this ability.
  
  
• Enhanced Move 1 (Ground; Second Nature, +150%) [50]
  Your ground Move is effectively doubled and you're free from problems with acceleration, turning radius, etc. This is a "raw" advantage, so it doesn't benefit from any power talent but Neutralize (even Cosmic one) has no effect on it.
  
  
• Enhanced Move 1 (Ground; Second Nature, +150%; Cosmic PM, +0%) [50]
  Your ground Move is effectively doubled and you're free from problems with acceleration, turning radius, etc. This ability belongs to Cosmic power, so it benefits from Cosmic power talent and immune to non-Cosmic Affliction (Negated Advantage), but Neutralize (Cosmic) can deprive you of this ability.

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

I'm unclear I get the point, but as far as I understand the current RAW could be summarized as follows (?):

• Enhanced Move 1 (Ground) [20]
  Your maximum velocity is doubled but you're bothered with acceleration, turning radius, etc. This is a "raw" advantage, so it doesn't benefit from any power talent but Neutralize (even Cosmic one) has no effect on it.
  
  
• Enhanced Move 1 (Ground; Cosmic PM, +50%) [30]
  Your maximum velocity is doubled but you're bothered with acceleration, turning radius, etc. This ability belongs to Cosmic power, so it benefits from Cosmic power talent and immune to non-Cosmic Affliction (Negated Advantage), but Neutralize (Cosmic) can deprive you of this ability.

At the above level, you can add any one of the 50% Cosmic modifiers for free. Also, I don't think even Neutralize (Cosmic, +300%) can deprive a person of their Cosmic Power.

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

• Enhanced Move 1 (Ground; Second Nature, +150%) [50]
  Your ground Move is effectively doubled and you're free from problems with acceleration, turning radius, etc. This is a "raw" advantage, so it doesn't benefit from any power talent but Neutralize (even Cosmic one) has no effect on it.
  
• Enhanced Move 1 (Ground; Second Nature, +150%; Cosmic PM, +0%) [50]
  Your ground Move is effectively doubled and you're free from problems with acceleration, turning radius, etc. This ability belongs to Cosmic power, so it benefits from Cosmic power talent and immune to non-Cosmic Affliction (Negated Advantage), but Neutralize (Cosmic) can deprive you of this ability.

Other than Neutralize being unable to stop Cosmic Powers that about summs it up. Most Super's based games will require super type advantages to have some kind of power modifier to distinguish it (but not all!) And also, Cosmic Powers have a few more benefits you didn't list, but you've got it.

[Gurps Fan]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

At the above level, you can add any one of the 50% Cosmic modifiers for free.

That's what I don't understand. If I want Cosmic as a power modifier but nothing else -- neither "instantaneous accelaration", "retained speed", nor any other effects -- then how much does Cosmic power modifier cost? +50%? +0%? Or, should we regard Cosmic (Adding Utility, +50%) as a prerequisite for buying Cosmic power modifier?

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

Also, I don't think even Neutralize (Cosmic, +300%) can deprive a person of their Cosmic Power.

Originally Posted by Powers, p. 97 (Boldface indicates italics in the original text)

Cosmic: You can neutralize any power, regardless of source. You can only affect one source at a time, but you can attack the same victim repeatedly to affect multiple sources. You still can't drain Talents, or advantages without power modifiers.

According to the rest of Powers book, it's more natural to interpret the phrase "any power, regardless of source" as including Cosmic power.