[PU4, Powers] What does Cosmic power modifier actually do?

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

I can think of a fair number of exceptions to that rule where someone has some kind of 50% cosmic combined with the Super/Mutant or Magic modifier. Comic book speedsters for example.

I agree.
That is why I feel that reference allows but not requires you to take the PM if you have a Cosmic enhancement but not require it.
Just as taking the Cosmic PM does not require you to take a Cosmic Enhancement.
However taking both if you take one is encouraged becasue of that discount.
That works for me. Though I doubt many would take it just as a PM at that price.

[Gurps Fan]

If I were the designer, I'd throw Powers's "50% discount on other Cosmic" rule away, and redefine Cosmic power modifier as a meta-enhancement whose sole component is either "Cosmic, Defensive, +50%" or "Cosmic, Avoiding drawbacks, uncouterable by non-Cosmic countermeasure, +50%".

E.g., DR (Cosmic PM, +50%) works on Cosmic Irresistible attacks because this PM is actually Cosmic, Defensive, +50%. Invisibility (Cosmic PM, +50%) defeat mundane See Invisible because this PM is actually Cosmic, Avoiding drawbacks, undetectable with non-Cosmic See Invisible, +50%. And so on.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

If I were the designer, I'd throw Powers's "50% discount on other Cosmic" rule away, and redefine Cosmic power modifier as a meta-enhancement whose sole component is either "Cosmic, Defensive, +50%" or "Cosmic, Avoiding drawbacks, uncouterable by non-Cosmic countermeasure, +50%".

All the "free" effect does is put you in the highest tier in a tiered system. It's not generally going to matter.

[Kuroshima]

And now comes the $1m question, an innate attack with the cosmic power modifier that takes no roll required, no active defense allowed, and irresistible attack pays how much for the enhancements? +550% or +650%? In my games, it is clear that it is +650% as the discount on cosmic modifiers is only applied once, but it is certainly less than clear.

[Gurps Fan]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

All the "free" effect does is put you in the highest tier in a tiered system. It's not generally going to matter.

Sorry? I don't see your point. Even in a campaign where the tier system isn't used, having Cosmic power modifier does mean "non-Cosmic countermeasures don't work".

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

If I were the designer, I'd throw Powers's "50% discount on other Cosmic" rule away, and redefine Cosmic power modifier as a meta-enhancement whose sole component is either "Cosmic, Defensive, +50%" or "Cosmic, Avoiding drawbacks, uncouterable by non-Cosmic countermeasure, +50%".
.

But the Silver Surfer really does have "The Power Cosmic" as his power source. So do the New Gods from the competition's stuff.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

Sorry? I don't see your point. Even in a campaign where the tier system isn't used, having Cosmic power modifier does mean "non-Cosmic countermeasures don't work".

You can't have Cosmic Powers without a tier system. Allowing them at all makes it a two tiered system at least. If you don't want that, don't allow Cosmic Powers.

[Gurps Fan]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

But the Silver Surfer really does have "The Power Cosmic" as his power source. So do the New Gods from the competition's stuff.

That sounds like mixing game effects up with in-game explanations. "My power source is cosmic bla bla bla..." is an in-game explanation, not effect, and not what we pay character points for. For instance, "Spirit power modifier, -25%" is worth -25% because of its fickleness and required disadvantage, not because of the fact that "my power source is spirit" itself.

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

You can't have Cosmic Powers without a tier system. Allowing them at all makes it a two tiered system at least. If you don't want that, don't allow Cosmic Powers.

Ah, I see your point. Then assume a (default) two-tier system. Game-mechanically, the effect of "being in the highest tier in two-tier system" is being immune to any non-Cosmic coutermeasure. This is too useful to be priced at "free".

[Bruno]

If you don't have any other Cosmic modifiers, just the power modifier, you still have a +50% cosmic on all your stuff.

On your defensive abilities, I'd say that makes them the standard +50% defensive cosmic - ie your defenses can't be bypassed by cosmic attacks. On all abilities, defense or non-defense, I'd say your abilities are ironclad against non-Cosmic attacks - your abilities can't be crippled, neutralized, static'd or whatever without the attacker having Cosmic. I'd

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

That sounds like mixing game effects up with in-game explanations. "My power source is cosmic bla bla bla..." is an in-game explanation, not effect, and not what we pay character points for.

No, Surfer's powers are actually supposed to be an order above that of any regular super. That's represented with the cosmics on all of them.