[PU4, Powers] What does Cosmic power modifier actually do?

[Refplace]

Basically its like saying Cosmic as a Power modifier is 0% IF you take one of the enhancement modifiers (Like Irresistible attack) then you can declare it as a modifier as well. This from Supers p101
Then the Modifer is explained on p26 as a PM.
If you had a Cosmic enhancement on a power and did not want it as a power modifier then most GMs would let you have a wild power or another PM.
However the things Cosmic does is pretty extreme and likely only to be a Cosmic type power. Because they essentially break even Supers Physics and do stuff most cant do.

And this was not really gone over in PU4 Enhancements since after all it is about enhancements not powers.
This is actually kinda cool.
Cosmic is +50% as a Power modifier but you can instead take one or more of the Cosmic enhancement types then your really getting a discount as its rolling up the PM into the entrancement.
However if you do not want to take one then you need the +50% to cover the Tier and other possible functions of this kind of power.

[Gurps Fan]

Originally Posted by Refplace

Basically its like saying Cosmic as a Power modifier is 0%

I see. So far, that sounds like the most likely answer.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Refplace

However the things Cosmic does is pretty extreme and likely only to be a Cosmic type power. r.

I can think of a fair number of exceptions to that rule where someone has some kind of 50% cosmic combined with the Super/Mutant or Magic modifier. Comic book speedsters for example.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

I can think of a fair number of exceptions to that rule where someone has some kind of 50% cosmic combined with the Super/Mutant or Magic modifier. Comic book speedsters for example.

I agree.
That is why I feel that reference allows but not requires you to take the PM if you have a Cosmic enhancement but not require it.
Just as taking the Cosmic PM does not require you to take a Cosmic Enhancement.
However taking both if you take one is encouraged becasue of that discount.
That works for me. Though I doubt many would take it just as a PM at that price.

[Gurps Fan]

If I were the designer, I'd throw Powers's "50% discount on other Cosmic" rule away, and redefine Cosmic power modifier as a meta-enhancement whose sole component is either "Cosmic, Defensive, +50%" or "Cosmic, Avoiding drawbacks, uncouterable by non-Cosmic countermeasure, +50%".

E.g., DR (Cosmic PM, +50%) works on Cosmic Irresistible attacks because this PM is actually Cosmic, Defensive, +50%. Invisibility (Cosmic PM, +50%) defeat mundane See Invisible because this PM is actually Cosmic, Avoiding drawbacks, undetectable with non-Cosmic See Invisible, +50%. And so on.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

If I were the designer, I'd throw Powers's "50% discount on other Cosmic" rule away, and redefine Cosmic power modifier as a meta-enhancement whose sole component is either "Cosmic, Defensive, +50%" or "Cosmic, Avoiding drawbacks, uncouterable by non-Cosmic countermeasure, +50%".

All the "free" effect does is put you in the highest tier in a tiered system. It's not generally going to matter.

[Gurps Fan]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

All the "free" effect does is put you in the highest tier in a tiered system. It's not generally going to matter.

Sorry? I don't see your point. Even in a campaign where the tier system isn't used, having Cosmic power modifier does mean "non-Cosmic countermeasures don't work".

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

Sorry? I don't see your point. Even in a campaign where the tier system isn't used, having Cosmic power modifier does mean "non-Cosmic countermeasures don't work".

You can't have Cosmic Powers without a tier system. Allowing them at all makes it a two tiered system at least. If you don't want that, don't allow Cosmic Powers.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

If I were the designer, I'd throw Powers's "50% discount on other Cosmic" rule away, and redefine Cosmic power modifier as a meta-enhancement whose sole component is either "Cosmic, Defensive, +50%" or "Cosmic, Avoiding drawbacks, uncouterable by non-Cosmic countermeasure, +50%".
.

But the Silver Surfer really does have "The Power Cosmic" as his power source. So do the New Gods from the competition's stuff.

[Kuroshima]

And now comes the $1m question, an innate attack with the cosmic power modifier that takes no roll required, no active defense allowed, and irresistible attack pays how much for the enhancements? +550% or +650%? In my games, it is clear that it is +650% as the discount on cosmic modifiers is only applied once, but it is certainly less than clear.