[DF] Why is the Prime Material Plane Important?

[b-dog]

Originally Posted by Edges

I get what thulben and sir pudding are saying. The term "Prime Material Plane" is nothing but a technical D&D term. It's all but meaningless elsewhere AFAIK. It is not unlike asking about Magery on the D&D forum or muggles on the LotR forum. And while Gurps is certainly able to handle gygaxian cosmology, it is by no means the default cosmology for GURPS DF as the OP's first paragraph seems to suggest. /curmudgeoning.

I've never had a Prime Material Plane in GURPS DF. I've had one material plane and one spirit plane. And I've had one material plane and two spirit planes. In non-DF GURPS games I've sometimes had multiple material planes but none of them were considered prime.

Before I got into GURPS, I ran probably over a hundred games. Many of them had multiple material planes. And in some, one of the material planes was considered more central or in some cases, more real. So in these instances, there was a Prime Material Plane if you will. And I've played D&D.

As an attempt to answer the OPs question, I'll say that in the games where there was a PMP, it was so important because it was somehow more central or more real. In my view, the PMP is important by definition. It is Prime after all. Whatever makes it stand out as prime in your cosmology is what makes it important.

Some ideas on what makes a material plane "prime":

• It is what God or the gods pay most attention to.
• It is the place where new souls are first introduced.
• It is the largest or only hub/crossroads between planes.
• It is more lasting. Matter from it will remain material in other planes while matter from other planes will dissolve on the PMP and otherworldy creatures can't stay forever on the PMP.
• Material from the PMP is more potent. Its food is the tastiest, it's steel is the easiest to enchant, etc.
• Material, or even magic itself, is most potent when taken to the PMP (sort of the opposite of the preceding point). If everyone's magic items are more effective on the PMP, they will want to bring them there to use. It becomes the play field.
• While time flows at different rates in different planes, they use the PMP as their universal clock.
• Souls transmigrate is a special way on the PMP. Maybe you can choose what to become if you die there but if you die elsewhere you become something specific. If you die in hell, you become a demon but if you die in the PMP, you could become an angel.
• Thoughts/beliefs on the PMP have a formative impact on the other planes but not (or to a lesser degree) vice versa.

I think I'll stop there.

The reason I was using Prime Material Plane was because the elemental planes could possibly be made of matter and there could also be other planes that are material instead of spiritual. I just meant the plane where the PCs live as opposed to the other planes of existence that are commonly part of fantasy.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

I think you're giving Gygax more credit than he deserves. Elemental planes are pretty basic ideas.

"Prime Material Plane" as a term of art is purely Gygaxian.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

"Prime Material Plane" as a term of art is purely Gygaxian.

Eh, slang to restate something that's been around for centuries is not quite what I would call pure invention.

[Purple Haze]

If one is going to discuss a D&D/Gygaxish cosmology, the Prime Material Plane was never unique, any book referencing it also contained reference to Alternate Prime Material Planes, the number of which was implied to be large.

[b-dog]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

"Prime Material Plane" as a term of art is purely Gygaxian.

What is wrong with referencing Gary Gygax? It is like saying you can not reference Newton or Einstein when talking about Physics.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by b-dog

I was only curious as to what other players think of why the Prime Material Plane is important.

My concept is that it's only important to creatures that live off souls because it has a lot of them. The rest of the planes couldn't give a toss.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Purple Haze

If one is going to discuss a D&D/Gygaxish cosmology, the Prime Material Plane was never unique, any book referencing it also contained reference to Alternate Prime Material Planes, the number of which was implied to be large.

I recall it as referring to Alternate Material Planes with Prime being reserved for only he campaign's home plane... that is to say an any given campaign there was only one prime the rest were all alternate.

[Edges]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

I recall it as referring to Alternate Material Planes with Prime being reserved for only he campaign's home plane... that is to say an any given campaign there was only one prime the rest were all alternate.

Actually, he's right. As far back as first ed. D&D, there were conceivably infinite PMPs. An inhabitant of a PMP called their home the PMP and all others alternate PMPs. Each of these had their own Ethereal plane. Thus, travel from one PMP to another was tricky. The PMPs could be widely different in terms of physics, mana-levels, TL, inhabitants, etc. Basically, the infinite worlds game concept for table-top was developed for D&D in the 80s.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by b-dog

What is wrong with referencing Gary Gygax? It is like saying you can not reference Newton or Einstein when talking about Physics.

There's nothing wrong with referencing him. What I don't understand is why you expect GURPS DF to do so as a term of art or to have Gygax-derived specific features as hard rules instead of setting specific choices.

[thulben]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

There's nothing wrong with referencing him. What I don't understand is why you expect GURPS DF to do so as a term of art or to have Gygax-derived specific features as hard rules instead of setting specific choices.

This. The entire presupposition of this thread is "let's talk about something that everyone has in their DF setting" when, in fact, it's not stated anywhere in the books published to date.