[DF] Why is the Prime Material Plane Important?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

Except the originality poster did't say that he said he was interested it in the terms of Dungeon Fantasy, a GURPS line (that what the [DF] in the title means)

DF doesn't use Gygaxian cosmology explicitly anywhere, no matter how much b-dog wants it to.

If he wants to use Gygax's ideas for D&D in his GURPS game, the game police aren't going to arrest him, but he isn't going to get an official blessing from Kromm either. As usual, I'm really perplexed as to what he wants.

In my current (non-DF) game, there are at least four planes:
Our universe.

• An ethereal plane that overlays the material universe; this is where immaterial spirits exist.
• A celestial realm that houses angels and demons that exists outside both the time and space of material universe; all points in this realm are apparently "next to" all points in our universe (including the past and future).
• An "in-between" realm that can access the ethereal plane, but cannot be accessed from our universe directly at all.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

DF doesn't use Gygaxian cosmology explicitly anywhere, no matter how much b-dog wants it to.
...[/LIST]

I think you're giving Gygax more credit than he deserves. Elemental planes are pretty basic ideas.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

I think you're giving Gygax more credit than he deserves. Elemental planes are pretty basic ideas.

"Prime Material Plane" as a term of art is purely Gygaxian.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

"Prime Material Plane" as a term of art is purely Gygaxian.

Eh, slang to restate something that's been around for centuries is not quite what I would call pure invention.

[Purple Haze]

If one is going to discuss a D&D/Gygaxish cosmology, the Prime Material Plane was never unique, any book referencing it also contained reference to Alternate Prime Material Planes, the number of which was implied to be large.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Purple Haze

If one is going to discuss a D&D/Gygaxish cosmology, the Prime Material Plane was never unique, any book referencing it also contained reference to Alternate Prime Material Planes, the number of which was implied to be large.

I recall it as referring to Alternate Material Planes with Prime being reserved for only he campaign's home plane... that is to say an any given campaign there was only one prime the rest were all alternate.

[Edges]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

I recall it as referring to Alternate Material Planes with Prime being reserved for only he campaign's home plane... that is to say an any given campaign there was only one prime the rest were all alternate.

Actually, he's right. As far back as first ed. D&D, there were conceivably infinite PMPs. An inhabitant of a PMP called their home the PMP and all others alternate PMPs. Each of these had their own Ethereal plane. Thus, travel from one PMP to another was tricky. The PMPs could be widely different in terms of physics, mana-levels, TL, inhabitants, etc. Basically, the infinite worlds game concept for table-top was developed for D&D in the 80s.

[b-dog]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

"Prime Material Plane" as a term of art is purely Gygaxian.

What is wrong with referencing Gary Gygax? It is like saying you can not reference Newton or Einstein when talking about Physics.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by b-dog

What is wrong with referencing Gary Gygax? It is like saying you can not reference Newton or Einstein when talking about Physics.

There's nothing wrong with referencing him. What I don't understand is why you expect GURPS DF to do so as a term of art or to have Gygax-derived specific features as hard rules instead of setting specific choices.

[thulben]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

There's nothing wrong with referencing him. What I don't understand is why you expect GURPS DF to do so as a term of art or to have Gygax-derived specific features as hard rules instead of setting specific choices.

This. The entire presupposition of this thread is "let's talk about something that everyone has in their DF setting" when, in fact, it's not stated anywhere in the books published to date.