Dodging While Grappling

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Originally Posted by Captain Joy

I stand corrected. But is it still not reduce by encumbrance?

Yes, but not at the same rate (see 4e Basic p 17).

Originally Posted by Captain Joy

If it is, my argument still stands.

A person grappling you doesn't count as encumbrance, unless you have more than twice their ST so they don't stop you from moving away completely and dragging them along with you (4e Basic p 370), in which case, sure the encumbrance lowers Dodge, but otherwise, no.

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc

A person grappling you doesn't count as encumbrance, unless you have more than twice their ST so they don't stop you from moving away completely and dragging them along with you (4e Basic p 370), in which case, sure the encumbrance lowers Speed which lowers Dodge, but otherwise, no.

This does raise the interesting situation in which (for example) a ST 20 person being grappled by a (slightly overweight) ST 9, 165 lb person will have a larger Dodge penalty than if grappled by a ST 10 person. 165 pounds of encumbrance puts them at Medium encumbrance for -2 Dodge, compared to the -1 Dodge for being grappled. This is something of an edge case, but it still feels counterintuitive.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

This does raise the interesting situation in which (for example) a ST 20 person being grappled by a (slightly overweight) ST 9, 165 lb person will have a larger Dodge penalty than if grappled by a ST 10 person. 165 pounds of encumbrance puts them at Medium encumbrance for -2 Dodge, compared to the -1 Dodge for being grappled. This is something of an edge case, but it still feels counterintuitive.

Somebody should take care of this. Maybe in a book about . . . Nah. That'd be crazy-talk.

:-)

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

Somebody should take care of this. Maybe in a book about . . . Nah. That'd be crazy-talk.

:-)

Oh DouglasCole... you tease us so =P

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

Oh DouglasCole... you tease us so =P

Until books (rather than book) of mine sell a jillion copies, I can only make vague hints. While Hans or Bill or David or Sean or Peter can say "My upcoming release deals with [blah]" I don't give myself that luxury.

Yet. :-)

(OK, maybe "ever.")

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

This does raise the interesting situation in which (for example) a ST 20 person being grappled by a (slightly overweight) ST 9, 165 lb person will have a larger Dodge penalty than if grappled by a ST 10 person. 165 pounds of encumbrance puts them at Medium encumbrance for -2 Dodge, compared to the -1 Dodge for being grappled. This is something of an edge case, but it still feels counterintuitive.

The more-than-double-ST rule explicitly states that it stops the ban on moving away, not that it stops the -4 DX, so ST 9 / 165# guy would inflict a total -3 Dodge on ST 20 guy after both that and encumbrance are factored in. This doesn't hurt my SOD; ST 10 guy is restraining ST 20 guy with pure muscle, while ST 9 guy is forcing ST 20 guy (if he Moves) to carry him.

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc

Depends what the ST 10 person weighs; the more-than-double-ST rule explicitly states that it stops the ban on moving away, not that it stops the -4 DX, so ST 9 / 165# guy would inflict a total -3 Dodge on ST 20 guy after both that and encumbrance are factored in.

Good point. With that in mind, any grappler with ST less than half but weight greater than BL will impose a greater penalty than a stronger grappler.

So, yeah, Technical Grappling is greatly anticipated.

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

Good point. With that in mind, any grappler with ST less than half but weight greater than BL will impose a greater penalty than a stronger grappler.

On the other hand, they are also at a disadvantage because they're getting dragged around wherever ST 20 guy wants. If ST 10 guy was willing to put up with that, and confident that his body weight would hinder his target more than his ST, he could always just grab on, go limp (ie: use less than his max effective ST), and drag the guy down instead of trying to control his movement, IMHO.