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Old 02-14-2012, 02:53 PM   #21
simply Nathan
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Default Re: How do I find weight from ST?

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
After that I'd decide to make my gnomes taller. Tall enough that the blade from a human long knife made a proportional broadsword for them at least. That ought to be something over 3' at least. 3 1/2' seems even mroe likely.
I actually talked my co-designer up from them being 1' tall. Also, I gave them Huge Weapons (SM) 3, so that I don't have to math them up scaled-down weapons. If I'd done them as SM-2 I'd have given them two levels of it, and probably found somewhere else to put the last point.

Interesting side effects of building such races from a gamist perspective and doing the worldbuilding around it: they are very dense, but not penalized in any way in their swimming ability, and spending 30 personal character points a gnome PC can use a longbow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
The pixies in Dungeon Fantasy are about as dense as iron, but I don't have much trouble with their flight abilities as they're even more disproportionately strong than these gnomes.
These gnomes were inspired by the gnome and leprechaun templates in DF3; I felt the gnomes as presented were a bit too much like dwarves (though blessedly more divergent that I've seen elsewhere) while the leprechauns were pretty close.

And being disproportionately strong is part of the point; one of the literary inspirations for their design was a gnome with a 6-foot long staff (with "one hundred weight" - pounds in the version one of us read, undefined in the other; I'd still expect that guy to be quite an exceptional individual).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin
Yep. Scaling a human to 2 ft tall is 1/27th or a weight in the 5-7lb range.
My first calculations yielded 5.5 lbs based on a scaled-down human, but my co-designer cited our dog of about half the same general size being at least ten pounds, so it broke even our suspension of disbelief.

I think we'll go with 64 lbs at first, and if enough people call it into question during our playtest, we might go with 27 (which I prefer, but still leaves them quite heavy).


Thank you all for the interesting and useful responses.
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Old 02-14-2012, 02:57 PM   #22
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Default Re: How do I find weight from ST?

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Originally Posted by Kenneth Latrans View Post
My first calculations yielded 5.5 lbs based on a scaled-down human, but my co-designer cited our dog of about half the same general size being at least ten pounds, so it broke even our suspension of disbelief.
I'll throw a "small dog" dog into my volume calculations. They've got different proportions again, but closer to a babies porportions than an adult humans. Small dogs are based on various kinds of genetic dwarfism in dogs, which produces disproportionately large heads.
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Old 02-14-2012, 03:30 PM   #23
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Default Re: How do I find weight from ST?

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I think we'll go with 64 lbs at first, and if enough people call it into question during our playtest, we might go with 27 (which I prefer, but still leaves them quite heavy).
64 lbs is massive, 2 ft tall is tiny, at 64 lbs that'd be a ball of flesh...

Growth Chart

They'd be built like fat midget Kartmans, since they weigh as much as a chunky 4 foot tall kid, but are half their height:

...O...
./...\.
|....|

Fat Kartman
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Old 02-14-2012, 03:36 PM   #24
simply Nathan
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Default Re: How do I find weight from ST?

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64 lbs is massive, 2 ft tall is tiny, at 64 lbs that'd be a ball of flesh...
You're assuming they're not made of magically dense flesh. Which they are. I still prefer 27 lbs (based off of their HP 6) to 64 lbs (based off of their ST 8).

Hey, a gnome has a heart of gold. ;)
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Old 02-14-2012, 03:38 PM   #25
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Default Re: How do I find weight from ST?

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I think we'll go with 64 lbs at first, and if enough people call it into question during our playtest, we might go with 27 (which I prefer, but still leaves them quite heavy).
Assuming no difference in density, that's basically equivalent to taking a human and reducing height by a factor of 3 without adjusting width at all (take a picture of a human. Reduce its vertical scaling to 33%, without changing the horizontal scaling. Experiment doing that here. Original here).
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Old 02-14-2012, 04:31 PM   #26
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Default Re: How do I find weight from ST?

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I'll throw a "small dog" dog into my volume calculations. They've got different proportions again, but closer to a babies porportions than an adult humans. Small dogs are based on various kinds of genetic dwarfism in dogs, which produces disproportionately large heads.
OK, so no dog, I don't have one that's manifold.

I did three humanoids - one "baby", one proportionled like a normal adult but perfectly shrunk, and one squat short-limbed barrel-chested big-headed humanoid, which might theoretically match the strength and inteligence of the gnomes in question (at least, if made of osmium or something). All scaled to 2 feet tall.

"adult human" is 2834.8 CC, Baby is 6291.3 CC, and squat-dude, who probably qualifies for +1 effective SM, is 16694.7 CC and looks like he's made out of watermelons and tree trunks.

If we go with a density of about 0.85 g/cc (the best general estimate I can get of overall human density) that gives us 2.4 kg for the tiny-adult, 5.3 kg for the 2' tall baby, and 14.2 kg for the brute (5.3 lbs for tiny man, 11.68 lbs for baby, 31 lbs for brute).

So at about 27 lbs, gnomes will look sort of... like squat balls of steroid abuse.
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Last edited by Bruno; 02-14-2012 at 05:05 PM.
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Old 02-14-2012, 04:50 PM   #27
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Default Re: How do I find weight from ST?

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Originally Posted by Kenneth Latrans View Post
You're assuming they're not made of magically dense flesh. Which they are. I still prefer 27 lbs (based off of their HP 6) to 64 lbs (based off of their ST 8).

Hey, a gnome has a heart of gold. ;)
That gives new meaning to "loot the bodies"... :)
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Old 02-14-2012, 05:16 PM   #28
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Default Re: How do I find weight from ST?

I couldn't resist making a picture of one of the "angry ball of muscle" versions of these guys. You and your co-creator may find it helpful, or not; it was fun to make anyways.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jerril/6878261001
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Old 02-14-2012, 05:20 PM   #29
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Default Re: How do I find weight from ST?

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I couldn't resist making a picture of one of the "angry ball of muscle" versions of these guys.
I like that better than my hack job (linked above).
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Old 02-14-2012, 07:46 PM   #30
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Default Re: How do I find weight from ST?

Dwarves and Gnomes are related in myth. Dwarves are primarily Norse myth and Gnomes in the Alpine region myths. Other games have rules that say that Dwarves and Gnomes differ primarily in where they live, with the Gnomes being more surface dwellers and Dwarves more underground. This is also reflected in the outlook of the two races with Dwarves being more craftsmen types and Gnomes being more farmer/woodsman types.
Now since we are talking about what would seem to be a magical race the body mass does not need to be strictly accurate by Human standards. However, the less you need to suspend your disbelief the better.
My advice would be to gain a little height, decide on a specific enviornmental niche to make them different from Dwarves and go from there. Remember that it is Strength (ST) that determines damage for the sort of weapons these folks will be using. Unless they run from any combat encounter, and short legs will get them killed there, they will need to fight. Height and weight will justify the extra ST so that they will have a chance. Unless they have some magical or poisonous method of equaling out the odds that is.
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