Limit Breaks in GURPS

[Langy]

Originally Posted by kdtipa

All interesting responses so far. Definitely giving me things to think about. At the moment, I'm really liking the idea that reaching the limit means not having to expend resources to power the powers.

You'd need to use an alternative system for those powers, then, because the default ones (including the 3e version, if I remember right) already do not require the expending of resources to power the powers.

[kdtipa]

You're right. It's something I have to think about. I want the psi to be a useful tool in their arsenal... so I don't want this limit break idea to change psi enough that it's a pain. I might not use it at all. It's why I'm posting here on the forum about it. I'm trying to get thoughts about it before trying to implement it in the game. If it's too clunky or complex... I don't want it there. And I don't want to have to make all psi use cost fatigue just to get the "limit break" idea to work.

[Langy]

I still think the easiest method would be to have the 'limit break' allow you to use Extra Effort on the psi abilities easily, allowing you to double or triple your effective level in the ability.

You should really look into GURPS Psionic Powers - I think it'll work well for you.

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by kdtipa

You're right. It's something I have to think about. I want the psi to be a useful tool in their arsenal... so I don't want this limit break idea to change psi enough that it's a pain. I might not use it at all. It's why I'm posting here on the forum about it. I'm trying to get thoughts about it before trying to implement it in the game. If it's too clunky or complex... I don't want it there. And I don't want to have to make all psi use cost fatigue just to get the "limit break" idea to work.

They could use the Limit Break FP to fuel Extra Effort (as described in Psi Powers) or Power Stunts (from Powers) to boost their effective level or exceed other normal limits of their power. Throw in the +5 bonus to the Will-based roll for attempting Extra Effort in an emergency, with possibly an additional situational bonus (ie, extra Power Talent with an Accessibility or Trigger limit.) If they need an additional skill boost, they can remove -1 penalty per additional 1 FP spent.

[daniel_gudman]

I guess my question is, "what are you trying to accomplish with 'Limit Breaks' as a mechanism"?

Psionic fiction often uses psionics as a very obvious metaphor for learning to control and understand your emotions. Characters grow as people, becoming more introspective and understanding their own strength and flaws, and that is obviously demonstrated by their increased psychic competency.

Is that where you are going with this? Or is psionic power simply a "specialness" that provides backstory and plot, as well as cool powers for the characters to use? Because in that case the characters should already be competent, and their powers should start off reliable--the game isn't about "growing up", the story is about contests between capable ability users.

In the case of "psionics as growing up", then the "Limit Break" is a "crutch", it's "training wheels" that the characters will eventually grow past, mechanically, by buying off the inconvenient limitations, if they so choose.

If the case of "cool powers", then they exist to add tactical depth as characters attempt to fill up and line up their Limit Breaks--while preventing their opponents from doing so. And, they help differentiate and gave a unique feel, rather than being "another powers game".

In the end, my suggestion is, make it pretty open. I would do something like this:

House Rule: How you build Psionic powers are subject to the following restrictions in this campaign:
1) Psionic powers must use ER, not FP.
2) Every use of power must consume at least 1 point of ER.
3) ER must be bought with the "does not refill naturally" limitation.

Then I'd let the players go. I think it would be more interesting to have everyone come up with their own solution to "how I fill ER???"

I think you could build an interesting campaign around the implications of how the players answered that question--and around the (possibly unethical) ways the NPCs solved it.

But that's me.

What kind of stories do you want your campaign to be about? How does the characters' Powers support that?

[Celti]

I'd just say that Limit Breaks are just uses of Extra Effort getting a significant bonus for emotional impetus. If you're fighting for that last inch of your life — or someone else's — you're going to get a fair bonus on your Extra Effort rolls.

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by Celti

I'd just say that Limit Breaks are just uses of Extra Effort getting a significant bonus for emotional impetus. If you're fighting for that last inch of your life — or someone else's — you're going to get a fair bonus on your Extra Effort rolls.

Good point. Video games use a "limit gauge" because there is no GM to decide when a character is desperate enough to tap his last reserves. Translate the spirit of the source material, not the mechanics themselves.

[Voren]

Originally Posted by kdtipa

What would the power be? Maybe just double power level for a psionic power? A big strength boost (massive adrenaline surge). Free "high pain threshold" for a few rounds?

Others have suggested was of modeling the gauge. For powers, any of the above are okay. If my memory of FF7 serves me well, some ridiculously powerful and flashy Innate Attacks and Afflictions would be better. With plenty of Special Effects, and lots of enhancements and modifiers.

[kdtipa]

Took me a while to think it through enough, but I agree. I'm going to do a couple things.

First, I'm just going to make sure my players understand the extra effort rule. So they can do it on their own.

Second, if I think they're roleplaying in a way that suggests to me that the given moment means something to them... if they can make me believe that their character is desperate... I'll tell them they can use extra effort but with some benefit. But I'm not going to explain that one to them before hand. I don't want anyone trying to ham it up to get rewards. I want something I can give them in game immediately to help something along that I think is really cool.

I'm not totally settled on what the benefit will be. I don't really want to reduce fatigue cost because in my head the being totally exhausted afterward is part of the deal. You don't come out of a desperate but awesome story laden fight looking like you're ready to keep going. It costs something.

I'm thinking maybe double the number of bonus levels for the fatigue they spend... so it still costs 3 fatigue (in 3e rules... not sure if it changed in 4e) to get 1 level normally, and I might make it cost 3 to get 2 levels when I want to apply a "limit break".

Hmm...

Still thinking, and I'm still not settled. I might just skip the limit break idea entirely.

I do appreciate all the input.

[Lord Carnifex]

Here's an idea:

Whatever mechanism you use for unlocking extra power, link it to a Fright Check. Then, go ahead and make liberal use of Fright Checks for occurrences like "impending death", or "the near death of a person to whom the character has a Sense of Duty".

Thoguh i'm not sure whether the extra power should be available if you succeed at the Fright Check, or if you fail.