Skill Question: Smuggling and Camonflage & Holdout

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by nerdvana

Really?



I don't see anything in it about using the skill to find contacts or on the law about smuggling or anything of that sort...

Bill already covered that. The first reply probably just thought about the meaning of the word rather then looked up the skill. Reasonable error.
As to why no default well they are quite a bit different in applicaiton.
Holdout is hiding on a person and smuggiling in a building or vehicle.
Camoulfalge would be used to hide the person, vehicle or building rather then something in it.

[nerdvana]

Originally Posted by Refplace

Bill already covered that. The first reply probably just thought about the meaning of the word rather then looked up the skill. Reasonable error.

Bill's reply wasn't up when I started mine and I didn't see it when I posted mine. Sorry if it seemed out of line.

Originally Posted by Refplace

As to why no default well they are quite a bit different in applicaiton.
Holdout is hiding on a person and smuggiling in a building or vehicle.
Camoulfalge would be used to hide the person, vehicle or building rather then something in it.

But wouldn't they be similar enough to allow some sort of default?

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by nerdvana

But wouldn't they be similar enough to allow some sort of default?

I don't see any reason to think so, no.

Camouflage is totally unlike the other two. There's a conceptual similarity between Smuggling and Holdout, maybe, but hiding things on your person and hiding things in a vehicle don't actually seem to have much in common in practical terms.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Refplace

Bill already covered that. The first reply probably just thought about the meaning of the word rather then looked up the skill. Reasonable error.
As to why no default well they are quite a bit different in applicaiton.
Holdout is hiding on a person and smuggiling in a building or vehicle.
Camoulfalge would be used to hide the person, vehicle or building rather then something in it.

I actually wasn't trying to address the question of defaults at all. I was disagreeing with Jason's post, which I think is a misreading of the rules.

I still don't have a specific position on Smuggling defaulting to other skills. But I would suggest that Camouflage could sometimes be used as a complementary skill for Smuggling: You have a hidden compartment in your house or car, and you want to cover it up with clutter to discourage a thorough search, say.

Bill Stoddard

[DanHoward]

I'm thinking of merging the two skills together and allowing an optional specialization for each.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by nerdvana

Bill's reply wasn't up when I started mine and I didn't see it when I posted mine. Sorry if it seemed out of line.

But wouldn't they be similar enough to allow some sort of default?

Ok, your reply to him just came across a little snippy and when someone is wrong its nice to corect them in a good way. Especuially if there trying to be helpful. Bills (WHSWHS) post was a nice example of pointing out the error which is why I pointed it out in my reply. There is a LOT of material in GURPS and often people go by what the name of something sounds like it means rather then the GURPS version of its actual game effect.
His reply pointed out he error and at the same time rather diplomatically pointed out a reason someone might have made the error.

Originally Posted by whswhs

I actually wasn't trying to address the question of defaults at all. I was disagreeing with Jason's post, which I think is a misreading of the rules.

I know. That was what I was referring to in my first sentence, sorry I was not more clear and explicit.

[nerdvana]

Originally Posted by Refplace

Ok, your reply to him just came across a little snippy and when someone is wrong its nice to corect them in a good way. Especuially if there trying to be helpful. Bills (WHSWHS) post was a nice example of pointing out the error which is why I pointed it out in my reply. There is a LOT of material in GURPS and often people go by what the name of something sounds like it means rather then the GURPS version of its actual game effect.
His reply pointed out he error and at the same time rather diplomatically pointed out a reason someone might have made the error.

I didn't mean to come across as snippy at all. Totally sorry if it seemed that way to you Jason.

Originally Posted by DanHoward

I'm thinking of merging the two skills together and allowing an optional specialization for each.

Which two? (as the question is about three skills)

That is a good idea also though perhaps.

[nerdvana]

Now my own answer (now that I've slept and discussed it with my wife)...

I'm going to add Holdout-3 as a default for Smuggling. The reverse isn't true. Camouflage can sometimes be used instead of Smuggling for the same effect with the GM's (mine) permission.

Opinions?

[Walrus]

Camouflage is very different not to give it default in any direction (or it should be very low like Physician from First Aid-11). It deals with actually making object look like its environment and it's opposed by Observation.

Holdout and Smuggling are similar, of course. But Holdout does include some acting and other contolled activity not to show your concealed item (and even HT rolls sometimes to holdout in body cavities) as it has default from Sleight of Hand. Smuggling usually refers to totally passive countermeasure (though you can use Fast-Talk or other interaction skills to convince searcher that you are innocent but this is another skill). Both are opposed with Search and use very similar methods (as Search defaults to Criminology). I'd say default to both sides is no better than -5.