[Technical Solutions] Complete Guide to Tanking in GURPS

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

Even more realistic is the ability to control ground, via something similar to the attack-of-opportunity rule from D&D3, which among other reasons exists to discourage "en passant"-style movement where the NPCs run past the warrior so they can hack away at the squishy party wizard with their swords. From what I've heard, the AoO rules in D&D3 were terribly difficult to learn and arbitrate, and I'd very much like something simpler and more "en passant"-focused for my own design projects, but I haven't got anything yet, so have nothing to share. The kernel of such abilities in GURPS is pretty obvious: Extra Attack with a Limitation -?? Only To Prevent En Passant-style Movement. The devil is in the details, though. Defining exactly when such Extra Attacks may be used, via objective rules.

Wait. What you're looking for is Extra Attack, sure (so you can attack a foe in front of you), and then Wait, so that if someone tries to run past, you can smack 'em.

There's no special rule needed for this; interrupting movement is what Waits are for.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

Wait. What you're looking for is Extra Attack, sure (so you can attack a foe in front of you), and then Wait, so that if someone tries to run past, you can smack 'em.

There's no special rule needed for this; interrupting movement is what Waits are for.

Extra Attack only works if you take an Attack manuever (including any variations of that theme). It doesn't work with Move, Concentrate, Aim or Wait.

That is, you can convert your wait into an Attack and an Extra Attack, but you can't make your Extra Attack and then Wait.

[Anthony]

The main reason for not charging past a front line defender in GURPS is the risk that they'll turn around and whack you in the back. Of course, if you have buddies, they can in turn whack the defender in the back, so this is a somewhat limited threat. The fact is, real-world 'tanking' is mostly about being in the way -- take a wait, and if they run forward, step into their path and attack them. Even if your attack fails to stop them, they can't continue without slamming in to you. In reality, it's very hard for a single person to 'tank' except by being too dangerous to ignore (and even that rarely works against more than one foe at a time), it's more the role of a line or formation of multiple people (defensive/offensive line in football, say, or a shield line).

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by Anthony

The main reason for not charging past a front line defender in GURPS is the risk that they'll turn around and whack you in the back. Of course, if you have buddies, they can in turn whack the defender in the back, so this is a somewhat limited threat. The fact is, real-world 'tanking' is mostly about being in the way -- take a wait, and if they run forward, step into their path and attack them. Even if your attack fails to stop them, they can't continue without slamming in to you. In reality, it's very hard for a single person to 'tank' except by being too dangerous to ignore (and even that rarely works against more than one foe at a time), it's more the role of a line or formation of multiple people (defensive/offensive line in football, say, or a shield line).

Yes, the Wait manoeuver on a 1 second timescale represents what the AoO rules did on D&D's 6 second timescale. The other option is having a ranged weapon ready to shoot anyone who comes forward or leaves cover, but again that uses a Wait manoeuver (or the suppressive fire rules).

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Extra Attack only works if you take an Attack manuever (including any variations of that theme). It doesn't work with Move, Concentrate, Aim or Wait.

That is, you can convert your wait into an Attack and an Extra Attack, but you can't make your Extra Attack and then Wait.

I'd house-rule this in an instant, for the reasons I state above. It's an elegatn solution. I would probably force a Per roll to execute this in combat, maybe a perception-based weapon skill roll, but I'd definitely allow it.

I'm not saying your quotation of RAW is wrong. It's just something that feels like a change would be a good addition to a fighter's capabilities.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

I'd house-rule this in an instant, for the reasons I state above. It's an elegatn solution. I would probably force a Per roll to execute this in combat, maybe a perception-based weapon skill roll, but I'd definitely allow it.

I'm not saying your quotation of RAW is wrong. It's just something that feels like a change would be a good addition to a fighter's capabilities.

Sure, it's a good addition to a fighter's capabilities, but that doesn't change the fact that an Extra Attack that works with a manuever that isn't some variety of Attack is worth more than 25 points. You'll note that the cost of being able to choose two different manuevers in a turn is worth 100 points and this is clearly a limited version of that.

If taking Extra Attack for 25 points conferred this ability, no fighting character would ever not take it. That is an indication that it might be overpowered.

[munin]

Kromm's Armed Interdiction technique allows you to make attacks against someone who moves past you within reach of your weapon. It defaults to Parry-2 so you can make as many armed interdictions per turn as your skill will allow.

It's loosely based on the Trip technique (p. MA81) which also allows you to intercept people who move past you.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by munin

Kromm's Armed Interdiction technique allows you to make attacks against someone who moves past you within reach of your weapon. It defaults to Parry-2 so you can make as many armed interdictions per turn as your skill will allow.

It's loosely based on the Trip technique (p. MA81) which also allows you to intercept people who move past you.

Note that he considers this a cinematic technique and outlines why and non cinematic options pretty much rely on the Wait maneuver at the bottom of the post.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Sure, it's a good addition to a fighter's capabilities, but that doesn't change the fact that an Extra Attack that works with a manuever that isn't some variety of Attack is worth more than 25 points. You'll note that the cost of being able to choose two different manuevers in a turn is worth 100 points and this is clearly a limited version of that.

No. It isn't. It allows you to make an attack, but delayed. That's all. Two totally different, unrestricted maneuvers is the 100 point version. But allowing Extra Attack to benefit from a Wait just allows you to . . . attack later in the turn sequence.

There really isn't that much benefit to this. I can already take a Wait, and then use my attacks later.

And honestly, the rules say

Originally Posted by pp. B53-54

Extra Attack is exactly that: an extra Attack maneuver on your turn in combat. It does not eliminate the -4 penalty for an “off” hand (see Ambidexterity, p. 39) or let you take multiple Aim maneuvers (see Enhanced Tracking, p. 53). You may use some of your attacks for Feint maneuvers, but you many not take multiple actions of other kinds – that requires Altered Time Rate (p. 38).

Using Extra Attack after a wait doesn't violate the rule above at all. Feint is another manuever, not an attack option, and those are explicitly allowed. So adding Wait to the list of allowed maneuvers isn't really stretching it that much.

I could certainly do a Wait, and then when that Wait is triggered, Attack and use my extra attack on the person who triggered the Wait. If another bad guy is next to him, I can attack the first guy and then the second guy after the Wait is triggered. So really, the real trip here is that you may only select one maneuver per turn without ATR. Wait, Attack, etc. are maneuvers . . . but so is Feint. That makes what I'm trying to do more akin to Rapid Strike (two attacks, against different foes) but spaced through your turn, perhaps. Or just saying that a turn is a full second long, and that you may Attack anyone in your reach during your turn, even with Extra Attack, subject to normal restrictions (see below).

If taking Extra Attack for 25 points conferred this ability, no fighting character would ever not take it. That is an indication that it might be overpowered.

I do not agree with this assertion. Allowing Extra Attack to be selectively applied to anyone in your reachable hexes between the beginning of one turn and the beginning of your next turn is the sort of thing that fills the gap between the discrete nature of turn declarations and the continuous nature of GURPS turns.

The only thing this does is allow you to apply the rules for Multiple Targets (Martial Arts, pp. 127-128) to any foes who enter your reachable area during your turn (rather than who are already there at its beginning), and given that you have to "waste" an attack if the targets aren't in adjacent hexes, it means it's VERY specific in only allowing this on a target that enters the hex immediately left or right of your current foe. Even THEN, if he's entering that hex and it's a SIDE hex, you can only attack it with a Wild Swing.

So no, it's not overpowered. I still acknowledge that it's not strictly rules-legal
at the moment, for reasons above. Kromm's Armed Interdiction says that such a thing is cinematically possible. And "cinematic" doesn't mean "can't happen in the real world." It means "worthy of the movies," which focus on larger-than-life exploits, some of which are unlikely or difficult, but doable. This use of Extra Attack in a limited circumstance (you can Wait to use it, but rules for facing still apply, as do the rules for Multiple Targets) is so comparatively trivial that I'd still allow it as-is.

The only thing I could see doing otherwise would be tweaking/borrowing the Rapid Strike rules, and saying that you can/must do Rapid Strike on the Extra Attack to guard for this sort of thing. The first -6 is "wasted" on an empty hex, but that allows you to attack any enemy that enters any hex but your rear one at -6 when he enters your ring. It would not obviate the facing rules (skill capped at 9 for Side hexes) but would replace the normal -2 for attacking into those hexes (already more than accounted for with the -6).