Survival - Desert

[Jeminai]

I am going to be starting a Dark Sun game pretty soon and in that setting (mostly desert) there are many types of desert landscapes (just like on earth).

How should I handle suvival rolls on different types of desert landscapes?

Darksun has some of the following desert types among others. These landscapes are very different and IMO should require different penalty types off of Survival (Desert).

Scrub Plains: typical mojave or australian outback landscapes with ample vegetation including desert hardy shrubs and cacti.

Sandy Wastes: typical sahara or Namib desert landscape. sandy dunes with almost no vegetation for as far as the eye can see and much farther.

Rocky Badlands: typical Utah canyon lands with mazes of canyons. Plenty of shade in anytime of the day that is not high noon or the couple of hours around that time. vegetation can be readily found in canyon bottoms where water is most likely to collect.

Salt Flats: typical Uyini Salt Flat or Bonneville Salt flat. Large expanses of of flat open salt crusted land. Any standing water is fouled by the salt, plants are exceedingly rare.

In typical games a Salt Falt is a desert and would default off of Survival (Jungle) at -3. I just don't think this fits. A Salt flat is much harder to survive on that the Utah Canyon lands (which has more water, plants and animals).

If i am misunderstanding how Survival works, please enlighten me. Survival is an important part of the game experience in Dark Sun.

[Turhan's Bey Company]

Originally Posted by Jeminai

In typical games a Salt Falt is a desert and would default off of Survival (Jungle) at -3. I just don't think this fits.

...particularly because Desert is specifically listed as a specialty of Survival skill on p. B223. Or are you saying that's the rule in Dark Sun?

If you want Survival skill to be a significant part of your game, you'll want Low Tech Companion 3, which has extended survival rules.

[Tinman]

Originally Posted by Jeminai

I am going to be starting a Dark Sun game pretty soon and in that setting (mostly desert) there are many types of desert landscapes (just like on earth).

How should I handle suvival rolls on different types of desert landscapes?

Darksun has some of the following desert types among others. These landscapes are very different and IMO should require different penalty types off of Survival (Desert).

Scrub Plains: typical mojave or australian outback landscapes with ample vegetation including desert hardy shrubs and cacti.

Sandy Wastes: typical sahara or Namib desert landscape. sandy dunes with almost no vegetation for as far as the eye can see and much farther.

Rocky Badlands: typical Utah canyon lands with mazes of canyons. Plenty of shade in anytime of the day that is not high noon or the couple of hours around that time. vegetation can be readily found in canyon bottoms where water is most likely to collect.

Salt Flats: typical Uyini Salt Flat or Bonneville Salt flat. Large expanses of of flat open salt crusted land. Any standing water is fouled by the salt, plants are exceedingly rare.

In typical games a Salt Falt is a desert and would default off of Survival (Jungle) at -3. I just don't think this fits. A Salt flat is much harder to survive on that the Utah Canyon lands (which has more water, plants and animals).

If i am misunderstanding how Survival works, please enlighten me. Survival is an important part of the game experience in Dark Sun.

I would think Scrub Plains would be survival plains, not desert.

For the other three, use survival: Desert and modify as follows...
'sandy waste' I think is the default 'desert'.
I would make badlands (where survival is esier at +2) and
a 'salt flat' (where survival is much more dificult, at -2 or even posibly -4)

[Jeminai]

I had not thought about making scrub plains equivalent to Plains. Typical plains (I'm thinking about Kansas and Nebraska) tend to have much more rainfall, much lower temperatures and a lot more vegetation (and thus animals) than the Australian Outback.

Would this type of hot, dry plain just be a penalty to Survival (Plains)?

Also, a person with Survival (Desert) would at -3 to be on the scrub plain, yet the scrub plain really should be easier to survive than the Sandy Waste (assuming the Sandy Waste is the "Default Desert Environ")

[Dustin]

Originally Posted by Tinman

I would think Scrub Plains would be survival plains, not desert.
For the other three, use survival: Desert and modify as follows...
'sandy waste' I think is the default 'desert'.
I would make badlands (where survival is esier at +2) and
a 'salt flat' (where survival is much more dificult, at -2 or even posibly -4)

This sounds like a good approach. If you prefer, the Scrub Plains & Badlands could use unmodified Survival (Desert), with sandy wastes giving a -2 penalty and salt flats a -4 penalty. You could then offer Easy techniques for mitigating the Sandy and Salty penalties, for true specialists in those environments.

[Jeminai]

Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company

...particularly because Desert is specifically listed as a specialty of Survival skill on p. B223. Or are you saying that's the rule in Dark Sun?

No, I'm saying that in GURPS the survival skills default at -3 from one another. So a person with Survival (Jungle) at a 15 skill could survive on a Desert Salt Flat at a 12 skill. I don't think that fits.

[aesir23]

Originally Posted by Jeminai

No, I'm saying that in GURPS the survival skills default at -3 from one another. So a person with Survival (Jungle) at a 15 skill could survive on a Desert Salt Flat at a 12 skill. I don't think that fits.

I think some terrains have specific Task Difficulty Modifiers that mitigate your complaint somewhat. Desert salt flat would have big enough TDMs for finding water, finding shelter, etc... that it would be stupid to attempt it on default.

[Gorkamorka]

Please note that I haven't read the Low Tech 3 about survival so I could be re-inventing the wheel. But it sounds to me that you should just go for Survival (Desert) for anything sandy and then give negative modifiers to hard to survive places like the Salt Flats. If one of your characters want's to be a salt flat expert then he can buy a technique to get rid of that negative modifiers.

Having said that I would consider the scrub plains =>Survival (Plains) and the badlands =>Survival (Mountains)

Other survival skills in Dark Sun Could be: Mud Flats, Sea of Silt, Obsidian Plains, Jungle.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Jeminai

No, I'm saying that in GURPS the survival skills default at -3 from one another. So a person with Survival (Jungle) at a 15 skill could survive on a Desert Salt Flat at a 12 skill. I don't think that fits.

Someone who's used to looking for that small bundle of dried up twigs that indicates a water-filled root is buried three feet below ground, or the signs of a sip-well, or that this thorny plant is poisonous but THAT thorny plant is just tough once you scrape the thorns off... is at -3 to survive in the Jungle, where he can't see more than 10-15 feet, he could step on an angry venomous animal before he ever saw it, and while there are plants EVERYWHERE he has NO idea which ones are poisonous, which ones have venomous surfaces/thorns/irritating hairs, and which ones are nutritious.

The -3 cuts both ways, because no matter what environment your Survival training is in and thus your knowledge of specific things is for... you're still trained in the fundementals of Wilderness Survival. These are pretty darn broadly applicable! They boil down to things like "pay attention!", "carry food and water in your stomach before carrying it in your hands or backpack", "Not everything that looks tasty is tasty", "Fatigue makes you stupid, stupid makes you dead", "Don't walk around in the dark", "Use fixed landmarks to stop yourself from walking in a circle", "muddy water is drinkable even if it's gritty, foul water isn't drinkable even if it's clear", and "Don't harass animals that are bigger than you."

I especially think "If you don't know what it is, don't touch it." and "Always know where you're putting your feet." transfer to just about any environment. :)

[safisher]

Originally Posted by Bruno

I especially think "If you don't know what it is, don't touch it." and "Always know where you're putting your feet." transfer to just about any environment. :)

The Army version of this is SURVIVAL:

The Key Word "SURVIVAL" will provide you with two of the most important survival skills--the ability to organize yourself and the ability to stay calm.

"S" stands for "Size up the situation."
"U" stands for "Undue haste makes waste."
"R" stands for "Remember where you are."
"V" stands for "Vanquish fear and panic."
"I" stands for "Improvise."
"V" stands for "Value living."
"A" stands for "Act like the natives."
"L" stands for "Learn basic skills."

http://textfiles.com/survival/survive.txt