Wizard Vows

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Dragondog

A Vow has the same cost no matter who you are. No matter if you're low ST or high ST. Warrior or wizard.

That isn't quite true. A Vow is always a personal thing. You may be asked to take it by someone else, but it's still your Vow and priced for the restrictions it places on you.

In my examples, I assumed a wizard because it appears that wizardly powers are to be tied up in the question. Remember that "No edged weapons" for clerics, when chosen, explicitly forms the basis of a Pact limitation that costs the cleric his powers if he picks up a blade! As has been hinted at here, the same Vow would be a free 10 points for a warrior with ST 20, Two-Handed Axe/Mace-20, and a huge maul. Likewise, my armor Vows took into account that wizards don't need armor as much as other characters – not with Armor spells, Shield spells, Iron Arm, etc., and not given that their profession isn't "warrior" but "support."

It also matters what the consequences are. It would be perfectly fair to say that wizards must take Vow [-10] to purify their minds to learn magic, but can then break the Vow later on at the cost of a level of Magery. The net effect on point value would be 0, but the wizard would really have to want to break the Vow! That isn't the same as the cleric case (a cleric loses his powers, he doesn't just drop a level of Power Investiture) because the wizard has no Pact. If a cleric's Pact were more severe, his Vow would rise to match it. These character-specific considerations are a big part of pricing Vows.

[Kuroshima]

Kromm, a vow to only ever use NERF weapons (and not even fight unarmed) would be even more restrictive that one that forces you to fight unarmed xD

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

Kromm, a vow to only ever use NERF weapons (and not even fight unarmed) would be even more restrictive that one that forces you to fight unarmed xD

I'd give -15 points for that one. :)

[Ts_]

Originally Posted by Kromm

I'd give -15 points for that one. :)

I think Kuroshima would want to play a NERFed Mystic Knight. Would that still be a -15?

More seriously, why is "no edged weapons" worth -10 points? I just don't see it unless the PC has already put points into edged weapons. And even then, you can still use training weapons with cr instead of cut damage at full skill. You could get +2 Striking ST for this after all.

Sure, it sounds like a severe thing, but let's compare it to Vow ("Never speak") [-15]. That makes a wizard completely useless (unless he has very high skill). The "no edged weapons" only inconveniences a fighter (the class that is supposed to depend on weapons). Also, "Never speak" applies in way more situations than just combat. It affects anyone using social interactions. It's bad for Leadership/Tactics in combat etc. There's a reason "Mute" is worth [-25] even to character concepts that don't especially rely on speech. So why is "Never speak" only [-15]?

From this I draw the conclusion that Vow ("Never speak") [-15] is appropriately priced, but "no edged weapons" is way too munchkinny. You could also say that a Vow should cost as much as the disadvantage it represents and price Never Speak as [-25]. I don't agree but I also think Vows can be broken on rare occasions without lasting consequences (if you try to restore yourself in front of your god etc), so they aren't quite as severe as the real disadvantage. (I've already tried to expand on this upthread to accomodate different kinds of Vows, in particular those that cannot be broken ...)

Thanks for any insight into "No edged weapons"!
Ts

[Darieltis]

Originally Posted by Ts_

More seriously, why is "no edged weapons" worth -10 points? I just don't see it unless the PC has already put points into edged weapons. And even then, you can still use training weapons with cr instead of cut damage at full skill. You could get +2 Striking ST for this after all.

I would imagine it has to do with damage type...edged weapons can do cutting damage or impaling (some anyway), and both of those types get multipliers for penetrating damage...plus the ability to amputate limbs etc. Blunt weapons do crushing damage only iirc.

[Anaraxes]

Vow: Do One-Third to One-Half Injury To All Targets [-10]

[Ts_]

Originally Posted by Darieltis

I would imagine it has to do with damage type...edged weapons can do cutting damage or impaling (some anyway), and both of those types get multipliers for penetrating damage...plus the ability to amputate limbs etc. Blunt weapons do crushing damage only iirc.

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

Vow: Do One-Third to One-Half Injury To All Targets [-10]

"no edged weapons" in my understanding would allow imp weapons like a spear, many fencing weapons and a bow. Is it a Vow against anything sharp or just against things with an edge? That's where my problem my stem from.

By the way, if it's -10 because edged weapons are so good, how about "no cr weapons", which would also seem like -10 on Kromm's list (not RAW, but a good starting point).

Regards
Ts