Stats for D&D spells in a Fantasy game?

[Blind Mapmaker]

I think converting a setting can work very well as long as you keep to the spirit of the things you are converting.

D&D offers, for example, spells that deal only a little bit of damage, but can be cast very quickly. You should make a couple of those to give players more options à la Magic Missile, Burning Hands etc. The clerical party buffs you mention are another thing that's missing in GURPS. Those can be restricted by only giving them to divine casters. Another thing are good (but not complete as in GURPS Resist Fire) protection spells. Making a non-variable Magic Armor spell that gives DR 2 and cost two energy per minute goes a long way of placating old Dungeons & Dragons expectations. Whatever you do don't go to closely into D&D details.

Having said that I agree with the other posters that getting a whole group of D&D fans convert to GURPS by giving them basically GURPS D&D is probably problematic. If there are some among them who have been chafing at D&D's restrictions this might work, but if they are comfortable with their system and you are the driving factor for converting then it would probably better to try something D&D can't do like modern day, hard SF or super heroes.

I am currently GMing a GURPS Forgotten Realms group that has two avid D&D players and they're fine with it, although there are some things they don't like (mainly combat length, relatively low attributes and bad defaults). It works fine, though, since there are other players who would never play D&D and some who just don't care.

I think the easiest way to please the D&D crowd is to give them a lot of options that are in tune with the campaign world you're playing in and can only be gained by fulfilling some prerequisites. D&D players in general love planning out their characters in advance. Another way to tempt them might be to play a "traditional" fantasy game, but with really in-depth character backgrounds and motivations which can all be expressed in GURPS terms.

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

Well, I also happen to think converting settings is a bad idea, but I hope that wasn't what came across in my post as I feel it's off-topic. I'm not trying to say that a D&Dish world, or even Forgotten Realms, is a bad place for new GURPSers who're used to D&D to start, even though I wouldn't do that. I'm trying to say that you should let the GURPS mechanics speak for themselves, and that includes using relatively generic stuff like (in my opinion) GURPS magic*

I do very much agree with your approach, though, Kuroshima. Were I to convert, I would do just what you do.

*I must admit, though, given the many-faceted approach to magic that GURPS has, this is a pretty weak argument. Think of it as a general philosophy: "Let GURPS be GURPS." It's arguable that GURPS can still be GURPS with combat-oriented vancian magic in it, of course.

Well, when I said I convert settings, I was not only speaking about settings from other RPGs. I was also considering settings from books. Anyway, my "conversions" will deviate from the source material when I think the source material is nonsensical (cue in many post CCG metaplot in L5R), where it doesn't fit GURPS rules cleanly (Cue in Vancian Magic), and where it fits my whim, so you could say that the setting is "inspired by" the original, instead of "converted from" it.

[Phantasm]

The one spell in D&D that gives me a hard time is, believe it or not, Magic Missile. I've come up with a decent variant which I think works, bit I'm unsure of two bits: Spell College, and prerequisite count.

Magic Missile (IQ/H)
This spell is a basic offensive combat spell, creating a projectile that does 1d cr damage per point of energy invested in it. Additional projectiles can be created - up to a total of five - at a -3 skill penalty per projectile. (Roll vs Innate Attack (Projectile) to hit.)
Energy Cost: 1 per 1d cr damage, up to your Magery level (normally 3).
Time to Cast: 1 second per projectile.
Duration: Instant.

Item
1) Staff or wand. 250 energy to create, only usable by mages. This can only fire one projectile at a time.
2) Jewelry. 500 energy to create, always fires two projectiles at 3d cr each.

Prereq count should be low, IMO. I thought about making this an Air College spell, as I always pictured the missile being 'hard air'.

Thoughts?

[Bruno]

It's been a "Force" effect since third edition, so for those it's probably a Movement college spell in GURPS. Or a Metamagic spell, if you go with the "Shooting people with raw magic" idea.

With 3e, one of the great benefits of Magic Missile being a Force effect is that it can be used on Ethereal creatures (more or less GURPS Insubstantial). The fact that you don't roll to hit, they "just hit" is also pretty darn nice - but of course you don't roll to hit with almost any spell in 3e.

I'd go with 1d-1 but add a note that it can be used on Insubstantial creatures at no penalty to hit...

Or I'd go all D&D 4th edition and say they're automatically-hitting, armor bypassing little "pew pews" that only do 2 or 3 HP each (GURPS scale - about 1/5th starting HPs).

[sir_pudding]

DF 11 has a Magic Missile-with-the-serial-numbers-filed-off Power Up for Wizards.

[thom]

Thanks for the help everyone! As I worked thru all the advice, I realized that GURPS doesn't have "area benefit" spells (like D&D Prayer). And because of that, I agree it would be a bad idea to try to directly convert it.

I'm still gonna work on Spiritual Weapon, though (thanks for the start Emily!); I think any group healer deserves this kind of attack to enjoy melees more.

[Blind Mapmaker]

Originally Posted by thom

Thanks for the help everyone! As I worked thru all the advice, I realized that GURPS doesn't have "area benefit" spells (like D&D Prayer). And because of that, I agree it would be a bad idea to try to directly convert it.

Well, GURPS has Bravery as an "area benefit" spell. Dungeon Fantasy I does have it as a spell for Power Investiture Level 1 and it's probably the closest RAW fit for D&D Bless. Given that this one gives a 15-point advantage (with a side-effect to be sure) for a one hour duration and a base cost of 2 I wouldn't rule out some similar spells for other buffs. You just have to make sure the area version is balanced with the regular buffs (Vigor, Wisdom, Armor etc.)

[Bruno]

I've felt for a while that area "buffs" are an interesting blind spot in GURPS Magic. There are a few - Bravery is one, but there's also Protect Animal - which is an absolutely fabulous spell if only your PCs were bunny rabbits ;)

Spells like Scrywall, Pentagram, and Mystic Myst are also arguably area beneficial - they're not like "Mass Bulls Strength" but they're still present.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by Bruno

I've felt for a while that area "buffs" are an interesting blind spot in GURPS Magic. There are a few - Bravery is one, but there's also Protect Animal - which is an absolutely fabulous spell if only your PCs were bunny rabbits ;)

What do you think Shapeshift Others is for?

"Did you find that adventuring party I sent you to ambush?"
"No m'lord. Only a wizard and a bunch of dire-bears."
"I see. And where are the rest of your men?"
"Um, dire-bears..."

[Kuroshima]

Technically, area buffs exist. Check in Pyramid #3/4: Magic on the Battlefield the secret spells of The Society of Siege Sorcerers by Sean Punch, with Greater Deflect Energy (Area Deflect Energy), Greater Deflect Missle (Area Deflect Missle) and Mass Resist (Effect) (Provides Resist <something> as an area effect, where something is Acit, Fire, etc etc. Not a single spell, it's a class of spells). They show how to take a spell, and make a Mass version. In my games, I allow player to suggest mass spells, and then they can purchase them as secret spells, via purchase of a suitable magic perk.