Building Dark Ages Warriors

[DanHoward]

Originally Posted by fredtheobviouspseudonym

4.) Comments on weapons & armor -- I expect Dan Howard is quite right that there was little if no use of leather in the records in Western Europe at that time. I would argue, however, that given the diversity of makers & users perhaps some oddball area or even individual in Western Europe might have been more prone to making armor out of cowhide -- not like the latter is wholly scarce & was

Domesticated cattle was smaller and had thinner hides than today. The only domesticated leather suitable for armour would have to come from from oxen and some parts of the horse. Neither was cheap in that part of Europe. The further east you go the more common and less expensive leather is. There is a passage in Tacitus saying that some German tribes couldn't pay their tribute in the normal manner and had to give the hides of "wild beasts for military use". This seems to suggest that skins from their domesticated animals were unsuitable for military use. They did have leather armour, but it was rare and only worn by the wealthy. Mail, scale, and layered cloth seem more common but even these were reserved for the wealthy.

Cuchulain is said to be wearing 27 cneslenti. Old works translate this as "hide tunics" but it is more likely describing a garment made of 27 layers of linen. The word "leinte" is a likely derivative of "linen". IIRC his chariot driver had leather armour.

[Lord Carnifex]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

Cuchulain is said to be wearing 27 cneslenti. Old works translate this as "hide tunics"

Is there any chance that those are multiple layers of softer, thinner leather from local cattle or even sheep?

[Anders]

Fantasy has a professional warrior for 75 points. Martial Arts has one for 100 points. It's not easy but it's doable.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Asta Kask

Fantasy has a professional warrior for 75 points. Martial Arts has one for 100 points. It's not easy but it's doable.

Neither of which has 1/3 of the point total in non-combat skills.

[Figleaf23]

Core:
Knife DX+2 [4] (Long Knife, Wt=1.5, $120)
Fast Draw:Knife DX [1]
Feint [2]
Spear DX+1 [4] (Spear, Wt=4, $40)
Grip Mastery: Spear [1]
Shield DX+2 [4] (Lt Shield. Wt=2, $25)

Options:
Throw (Spear) DX +2 [4] (Spear)
Throw (Knife) DX+2 [4] (Cheap Throwing Dagger x4, Wt=1, $32)
Sling DX [4] (+20 bullets, Wt=1.5, $30)
Brawling DX+1 [2]
Professional Skill (Soldier) IQ [2]

The core package is only [16], $185, Wt 7.5.

If you take the whole package, you get a broadly competent Low-tech combatant for 32 points, $247, and 10lb. Drop it in to a non-fighter build like a thief, or a merchant, or healer and you can consider yourself tough.

Or drop Sling, and use the package as the secondary competencies of an archery specialist or ranger. Or Drop Spear throwing and use it as the secondary competencies of a Staff specialist.

Or drop something to DX +1 and take a Fine Long Knife $480 as Sig Gear [1] (TL3) plus a Weapon Bond [1].

[Yorunkun]

Hello again,

had a busy weekend, with lots of back and forth regarding the campaign. We've agreed on a set of character generation guidelines, which I'm including below in case anyone is interested. These aren't final yet, but pretty close ... and pretty detailed. I've even included the perk-limitations as suggested.

Hal et al. were of course right on Illiteracy and Innumeracy. We've agreed that they are common disadvantages, but that they WILL count against the disadvantage-limit. The same goes for the following mandatory disadvantages (the idea is to keep the number of social/personal disadvantages low):

- Duty (oath-sworn to warlord, 5 pts)
- Social Stigma (in the campaign proper, characters will be foreign mercenaries; a tiny minority group in an unknown land, so 10 pts)
- Code of Honor (Soldier, 10 pts)

Comments welcome, as ever. My questions:

Is the disad-limit too strict now, given that 25 points are already pre-spent?
Am I right to exclude Judo, Karate and Sumo Wrestling?
What would an iron age warrior's code of honor look like?

Also, please take a look at the four character sheets I have so far.

Thanks.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Character-Generation Rules
All characters are built with 100 CPs, and up to 50 CP in disadvantages (including quirks). Advantages, Disadvantages and Skills designated as cinematic or supernatural or applicable to TL3 or above are not available.

Likewise, basic attributes must follow the guidelines for a realistic campaign; i.e.:
- HP may not exceed ST by more than 30%
- Speed may not be increased / decreased by more than 2 pts
- Move may not be increased by more than 3 yds

Characters’ age should be around 25 +/- ten years. Characters must be male.

The characters native language and culture is Saxon; illiteracy (a disadvantage worth 3 points) is common but does count against disadvantage limit. Other languages spoken in the campaign are Brythonic and Irish (which default to each other at -2), Latin and Pictish. Of these, only Latin and Brythonic will be available at the start of the campaign, and only at broken level (1 point). Characters cannot take variant TL or cultural familiarity dis/advantages.

Starting wealth is $750 (silver pieces, for convenience). Characters cannot take Wealth dis/advantages, but may increase their starting wealth in 1 CP / 75$ increments for up to 10 CP (the equivalent of Comfortable at 10 CP, for twice starting wealth).

Characters may take Status, Social Regard or Reputation, but only with the limitation of “among Saxons”, and not for more than +/- 5 points. Status of 1 would be the son of a famous warrior or lesser warlord, negative status would be the son of a serf out to prove himself.

Characters cannot take Rank, as they start out as oath-sworn members of a war-band.

Characters cannot have allies, contacts, enemies, dependants or patrons.

Advantages
Characters cannot take cinematic, exotic or supernatural advantages such as Arm DX and ST, Damage Resistance, Enhanced Defenses and Enhanced Move, Extra Attack, Rapier Wit, Striking ST and Trained by a Master. Furthermore, the following advantages are also not available because they are not suitable to the setting, plot or play-style: Claim to Hospitality, Clerical Investment, Gadgeteer or Gizmos, Luck (and it’s opposite, Unluckiness) and Serendipity.

Houserule: In place of Luck, all players may spend one CP to buy one re-roll, once per roll. They must take the re-roll’s result. This only affects their own rolls, not those made against them.

Given the frequency of combat, the following advantages will be particularly useful and are recommended: Acute Senses, Combat Reflexes, Fearlessness, Fit, Hard to Kill/Subdue, High Pain Threshold and Rapid Healing. The Weapon Master advantage is available, but only for weapon-and-shield styles.

Perks: Shield-wall training (1 pt) is mandatory, Teamwork is suggested but requires a total of 20 points invested in combat skills (see “Skills” below).

Disadvantages
The limit is 50 points. This includes negative attributes and mandatory disadvantages, as well as Illiterate or Innumerate. It also includes Quirks.

Mandatory disadvantages are: Duty-Oath-sword to warlord (5 pts), Code of Honor-Soldier (10 pts) and Social Stigma (foreign mercenaries in an unknown land; tiny minority, 10 pts). Other disadvantages of the same type as these are not available.

Characters cannot take cinematic (Destiny, Secret etc), exotic or supernatural disadvantages (Weirdness Magnet), nor those pertaining to a different kind of setting (i.e. Non-Iconographic, Xenophilia) and to age or disease (Chronic Conditions, Short Lifespan, Terminally Ill). Unluckiness is also not available.

Further, they cannot have any disadvantage that would render the character unfit to serve in a war-band, such as Blindness and Deafness, Combat Paralysis, Cowardice or Fearfulness, Lame or similar disfigurements. If the character incurs any of these during play, he will be retired.

Suitable and/or common disadvantages include Bad Temper, Berserk, Bloodlust, Bully, Callous, Compulsive Carousing or Gambling (requires at least one point in related skill), Illiteracy in your native language (3pts), Dyslexia (house-rule: reduced to 5 pts), Impulsive, Innumerate, Intolerance, Overconfidence, Sense of Duty (adventuring companions) and minor Vows.

Skills
Only skills appropriate to the tech-level and cultural environment of the European Dark Ages are available. In particular, fighting styles from other parts of the world and cinematic, magical or fantastic abilities (Enthrall, anything requiring Unusal Backgrounds or Trained by a Master ) are not available.

Furthermore, the following skills will be unavailable at the outset for meta-game reasons, but will become available as the game progresses: Area Knowledge, Current Events, Geography and Heraldry (characters are leaving their homes behind and setting out for the unknown).

House Rule: Fast-Draw is considered a technique of the respective weapon skill and can be improved as such.

As full-time warriors and members of a war-band, characters must acquire the following mandatory skills:

Soldier – at least one point
Hiking – at least one point
Shield – at least level 12
Spear – at least one point
Thrown Weapon: Spear – at least one point

A level of at least 12 must be reached on a one-handed melee Weapon such as Axe/Mace, Broadsword, Knife, Spear or Shortsword.

At least one point must be spent on either Boxing, Brawling or Wrestling; other unarmed combat skills are not available.

In total, at least 10 CP must be spent on combat skills. Characters must also take the Shield-wall Training perk; this represents their basic training. For access to the teamwork perk, which represents longer membership in this war-band, characters must spend at least 20 CP on combat skills.

Suitable and common non-combat skills are all physical abilities, like Climbing, Jumping, Lifting, Riding, Running, Swimming, Stealth, Throwing and Tracking; as well as the more common social skills Carousing, Dancing, Gambling or Games, Savoir Faire (only available type is high society – for use with chieftains and leaders of a war-bands), Singing and Public Speaking.

Specialist characters should also consider skills such as Camouflage, First Aid, Gesture, Interrogation, Intimidation, Knot Tying, Search and Survival. Characters with Status or aspiring to a leadership role may also consider higher levels of Savoir Faire and Public Speaking as well as Diplomacy, Leadership, Strategy, Tactics and Teaching.

Suitable background skills include Animal Handling, Farming, Fishing and Gardening as well as Carpentry, Crewman (Seamanship), Leatherworking, Masonry, Merchant, era-appropriate Professional Skills and Smith.

Techniques
Techniques from the Basic Set as well as from Martial Arts are available, provided the prerequisite skill is known to the character. Styles are TBD.

[Yorunkun]

Here's the final version of the Bruiser; a front-line sword-and-board guy, focused on durability and damage-dealing.


Attributes [64]
ST 14 [40], DX 11 [20], IQ 10, HT 11 [10]

HP 16 [4], Will 10, Per 10, FP 11

Damage 1d/2d

Basic Speed 5 [-10]
Basic Move 5

Advantages [34]
Combat Reflexes [15]
Fearlessness (2) [4]
Fit [5]
High Pain Threshold [10]

Perks [2]
Shield-Wall Training [1]
Teamwork [1]

Disadvantages [-38]
Appearance (Unattractive) [-4]
Code of Honor (Soldier's) [-10]
Compulsive Behavior (Carousing) (12 or less) [-5]
Duty (Oath-sworn to Warlord) (9 or less (fairly often)) [-5]
Illiterate [-3]
Overweight [-1]
Social Stigma (Foreign Mercenary (small minority)) (-2) [-10]

Skills [38]
Brawling DX/E - DX+3 14 [8]
Carousing HT/E - HT+0 11 [1]
Hiking HT/A - HT-1 10 [1]
Seamanship/TL2 IQ/E - IQ+0 10 [1]
Shield (Shield) DX/E - DX+3 14 [8]
Shortsword DX/A - DX+3 14 [12]
Soldier/TL2 IQ/A - IQ-1 9 [1]
Spear DX/A - DX+1 12 [4]
Swimming HT/E - HT+1 12 [1]
includes: +1 from 'Overweight'
Thrown Weapon (Spear) DX/E - DX+0 11 [1]

Stats [64] Ads [34] Disads [-38] Quirks [0] Skills [38] = Total [100]

[Yorunkun]

Here's a more balanced spearman; not quite as tough, but with a wider array of weapons and skills.

Attributes [87]
ST 11 [10], DX 13 [60], IQ 10, HT 12 [20]

HP 12 [2], Will 10, Per 10, FP 12

Damage 1d-1/1d+1

Basic Speed 6 [-5]
Basic Move 6

Advantages [24]
Combat Reflexes [15]
Fearlessness (2) [4]
Fit [5]

Perks [2]
Shield-Wall Training [1]
Teamwork [1]

Disadvantages [-38]
Bloodlust (12 or less) [-10]
Code of Honor (Soldier's) [-10]
Duty (Oath-sworn to Warlord) (9 or less (fairly often)) [-5]
Illiterate [-3]
Social Stigma (Foreign Mercenary (small minority)) (-2) [-10]

Quirks [-2]
Chauvinistic [-1]
Proud [-1]

Skills [27]
Axe/Mace DX/A - DX-1 12 [1]
Brawling DX/E - DX+1 14 [2]
Carousing HT/E - HT+0 12 [1]
Farming/TL2 IQ/A - IQ-1 9 [1]
First Aid/TL2 (Human) IQ/E - IQ+0 10 [1]
Hiking HT/A - HT-1 11 [1]
Knife DX/E - DX+1 14 [2]
Shield (Shield) DX/E - DX+1 14 [2]
Sling DX/H - DX-1 12 [2]
Soldier/TL2 IQ/A - IQ-1 9 [1]
Spear DX/A - DX+2 15 [8]
Survival (Hills) Per/A - Per-1 9 [1]
Thrown Weapon (Spear) DX/E - DX+2 15 [4]

Stats [87] Ads [24] Disads [-38] Quirks [-2] Skills [27] = Total [100]

[aesir23]

Originally Posted by gilbertocarlos

Shortsword at DX+3, Shield at DX+3, Brawling at DX+3, Spear at DX+1, remove 1 point of each and you get 14 points, sell 0,25 of basic speed and you can buy DX for 1 point.

Hmmm, good point. Allow me to adjust my changes to the bruiser.

Originally Posted by Yorunkun

Attributes [79]
ST 14 [40], DX 12 [40], IQ 10, HT 11 [10]

Basic Speed 5 [-15]
Basic Move 5

Skills [25]
Axe/Mace DX/A - DX+2 14 [8]
Brawling DX/E - DX 12 [1]
Carousing HT/E - HT+0 11 [1]
Hiking HT/A - HT-1 10 [1]
Knife DX/E DX +1 13 [2]
Seamanship/TL2 IQ/E - IQ+0 10 [1]
Shield (Shield) DX/E - DX+2 14 [4]
Shortsword DX/A - DX-2 10 (default from knife) [0]
Soldier/TL2 IQ/A - IQ-1 9 [1]
Spear DX/A - DX 12 [2]
Swimming HT/E - HT+1 12 [1]
includes: +1 from 'Overweight'
Thrown Weapon (Spear) DX/E - DX+0 12 [1]
Wrestling DX/A - DX 11 [2]

[aesir23]

Originally Posted by Yorunkun

Comments welcome, as ever. My questions:

Is the disad-limit too strict now, given that 25 points are already pre-spent?

Perhaps. If I were you, I'd keep it but I'd add to your mandatory disadvantages these either/or options:

E.G. Soldier's Code of Honor OR one of Secret (Dishonorable) OR Reputation (Dishonorable). A code of honor is a feature of the setting, but not everyone buys into the social/moral standards of their day.

Originally Posted by Yorunkun

Am I right to exclude Judo, Karate and Sumo Wrestling?

Probably not. The Combat Wrestling style in MA was certainly around in dark ages Europe and it includes Judo. Similarly many "folk wrestling" styles in the real world (like Glima) seem to include something like Judo Sport.

Sumo is just being good at shoves and slams, I'd say it could be picked up from combat experience or any number of games and sports.

Karate is the only one I'd consider banning, but it's not out of the realm of possibility that that a character with more exotic history might have encountered Pankration or Kalaripayit in their travels. Nor is it out of the question that some form of now unknown prize-fighting included effective striking techniques that could be represented by Karate.

At any rate, no unarmed combat skill is going to be very useful, much less game breaking in a campaign featuring armed and armored warriors.

Judo and Wrestling both retain some usefulness against armored foes, however.

Originally Posted by Yorunkun

What would an iron age warrior's code of honor look like?

Never refuse a challenge to single combat by a social equal.
Never show cowardice or flee/retreat without orders.
Honor your clan/liege lord/faith-and defend that honor with your life.
Never harm someone in your home who has tasted your bread nor someone who is granting you there hospitality.

[EDIT] A note on the characters: they look great for the most part, but they all expose a pet peeve of mine---

[rant] How does a character end up with Brawling but not Wrestling, Judo, or the Clinch perk? How does anyone learn to fight without learning to grapple outside of a formal martial art? [/rant]
In real fist fights, grappling comes as naturally as striking and is probably just as common. In northern Europe, both in the Dark Ages and today, wrestling was common sport. In life and death struggles with people in armor, grappling is a LOT more useful.