[Basic] Questions regarding Heavy Plate Armor - Page 4

Daeglan · 10-03-2011, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gudiomen

Stab him with what? The whole difficulty stems from the guy only having a blunt tipped sword....

I have never seen a blunt tipped sword. Every long sword I have ever handled had a thrusting tip. And I personally know multiple sword smiths.

aesir23 · 10-03-2011, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daeglan

I have never seen a blunt tipped sword. Every long sword I have ever handled had a thrusting tip. And I personally know multiple sword smiths.

It's an artifact of the Broadsword entry in GURPS being blunt tipped, even though such swords were rare.

demonsbane · 10-03-2011, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aesir23

It's an artifact of the Broadsword entry in GURPS being blunt tipped, even though such swords were rare.

That's right, there is a thread about this subject with some "official answers" but I can't find it ATM.

I wonder if anyone remembers the link.

Ulzgoroth · 10-03-2011, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aesir23

It's an artifact of the Broadsword entry in GURPS being blunt tipped, even though such swords were rare.

Tangentially, the actual Longsword entry (Low Tech, and possibly Martial Arts?) doesn't even have a tip-less version.

I assume the OP was terminologically careless.

aesir23 · 10-03-2011, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Tangentially, the actual Longsword entry (Low Tech, and possibly Martial Arts?) doesn't even have a tip-less version.

I assume the OP was terminologically careless.

Yep. When I was playing D&D I didn't know what Longsword meant historically (to be completely honest, I didn't know until I bought GURPS Martial Arts). What I pictured was what GURPS calls a thrusting broadsword. Modern video games have often continued to pass down this imprecise understanding of the term.

When I started playing GURPS (in 1991-- I was 12) I was surprised that there was no longsword entry in the Basic book.

To add to the confusion: what are called "Celtic Longswords" are thrusting Broadswords in GURPS, not longswords. Similarly, people outside of RPGs refer to Spathas as "longswords", and even Katanas as "Japanese Longswords."

DanHoward · 10-03-2011, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aesir23

When I started playing GURPS (in 1991-- I was 12) I was surprised that there was no longsword entry in the Basic book.

Pulling nonsense terms out of D&D just makes things worse. In the texts any sword that was larger than the side sword was called a "longsword". It could be anything from a broadsword to a two-hander. The D&D longsword is not the same weapon as that described in the fencing manuals like Talhoffer. The longsword in Martial Arts is and can be used in one hand or two. The D&D longsword seems to be nothing but a slightly longer broadsword. Its more like an older-style rapier than a true longsword.

DanHoward · 10-03-2011, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aesir23

It's an artifact of the Broadsword entry in GURPS being blunt tipped, even though such swords were rare.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daeglan

I have never seen a blunt tipped sword. Every long sword I have ever handled had a thrusting tip. And I personally know multiple sword smiths.

There are plenty of swords with a spatulate or rounded tip from the La Tene period through to the medieval period. This is what was modelled as broadsword in GURPS. The thrusting broadsword has a proper point and should be reinforced to stop it breaking off - this is why it is more expensive.

gilbertocarlos · 10-03-2011, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanHoward

There are plenty of swords with a spatulate or rounded tip from the La Tene period through to the medieval period. This is what was modelled as broadsword in GURPS. The thrusting broadsword has a proper point and should be reinforced to stop it breaking off - this is why it is more expensive.

Although there was arguments that it should be thr+1 imp, not cr.

RyanW · 10-03-2011, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanHoward

Yeah I was editing that part. Low-Tech has a light shield and a heavy shield. Using existing slam rules the light shield does the same damage as a heavy one since they have the same DB. HP (perhaps HP/5) would be a better stat to use and would be more consistent with the rest of the slam rules.

I'd keep it simple and just give the shields described as heavy +1 to DB for shield rushes only.

RyanW · 10-03-2011, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanHoward

In the texts any sword that was larger than the side sword was called a "longsword".

A key to the problem is that most of the terms used to describe specific types of sword are simply descriptions of how they differed from the then common sword (longsword is longer than an arming sword, broadsword is broader than a rapier), or is just how you say "sword" in the language that the sword in question originated from (gladius).

Or, of course, were labels applied long after the fact, often by people deriding their ancestors for using such awkward weapons. The Victorians were excellent at inventing "barbaric" things and pretending their predecessors invented them, in order to feel superior to them (read the section of Low Tech on torture for another set of examples).