[MH] RPM Creating Things

[Kalzazz]

Is it possible to create stuff using RPM? For instance food, water or ammo?

[lexington]

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

Is it possible to create stuff using RPM? For instance food, water or ammo?

I don't think anything forbids using Greater Create Matter for it plus costs for more matter. The mage should be forced to also roll against an appropriate skill for anything complex with a penalty for holding everything in mind at once.

[PK]

"Create" is one of the basic spell effects, and "Create Matter" can certainly be used to make food, water, ammo, etc. However, creating anything more complex than raw materials requires an appropriate skill roll -- so you could create bullets, but your Armoury (Small Arms) or IQ-based Guns roll would determine whether your bullets actually worked!

(Food and water are a minor issue in that all created matter expires at the end of the spell's duration, but I'd say that as long as the duration has at least a day to go when you consume it, you're fine. By that time, your body has already used up all of the nutrition it needs and passed everything it doesn't.)

[Kalzazz]

Ah. How would you assign the difficulty for the 'can you make this' check?

Given the differences involved between say 'blackpowder and lead ball' '.45 ACP' 'cyanide tipped ADPS caseless whatevers' and 'Railway Cannon'

[lexington]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

(Food and water are a minor issue in that all created matter expires at the end of the spell's duration, but I'd say that as long as the duration has at least a day to go when you consume it, you're fine. By that time, your body has already used up all of the nutrition it needs and passed everything it doesn't.)

A lot of the atoms and molecules hang around, waiting to be used. In a very scientifically minded setting a dedicated and powerful poisoner might feed a person nothing but created food and let the person die by inches from lack of material for cells to use.

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

Ah. How would you assign the difficulty for the 'can you make this' check?

Given the differences involved between say 'blackpowder and lead ball' '.45 ACP' 'cyanide tipped ADPS caseless whatevers' and 'Railway Cannon'

A quick method would be a penalty equal to the CPS multiplier (along with a constant -1 or -2 IMO) with a minimum of -1 and a solid slug (or ball) having no penalty.

So ADPS would be -3, cyanide filled hollow point would be -2. Caseless should be irrelevant, either the rounds are like that or not it's not an alteration to an existing round.

[Kalzazz]

Ah, excellent, that works very well for ammo

Any idea on guns or other things?

[starslayer]

I'd give it a difficulty equivalent to the crafting difficulty (minus tools)- so you'd need to refer to the gadgeteering rules and apply the penalties for producing a prototype of given complexity from workable plans.

I think; just to prevent 'I create a +8 grimore of create matter grimore' type scenarios I would also give a -1 for every 1/10th of campaign starting wealth to the crafting roll; The AK-47 is easier to create then the M16-A2 and costs less because of that; it is also easier to craft with a create matter roll.

I would let gadgeteers ignore that cost based limiter and perhaps allow a gadgeteer 2 [only for create matter magic] -50% advantage.

So even a master mechanic with RPM can't just smash there 'create matter' charm into the ground and end up clad in an instant suit of power armour; but a mechanic/witch/gadgeteer COULD.

[Kalzazz]

I think that -1 per 10% of wealth AND gadgeteering level penalties is double penalizing and overkill

A gadget is simple/average/complex/amazing however based in part on how much it costs

I would just got for gadgeteering rules . . . . -19 for a Complex +1 TL item for a TL 9 battlesuit is chewy enough as is

[PK]

Originally Posted by starslayer

I think; just to prevent 'I create a +8 grimore of create matter grimore' type scenarios

That isn't viable. PCs can't create grimoires anyway, not to mention it's stated several times that you can't use magic to get better at magic. You can't cast a spell to give yourself Magery, a ritual that gives you extra FP has the build-in limiter that said FP aren't sacrificable for magical energy, and so on. Grimoires are no exception.

I would let gadgeteers ignore that cost based limiter and perhaps allow a gadgeteer 2 [only for create matter magic] -50% advantage.

Sure, that's fair. I would let a caster/gadgeteer waive the need for a roll to determine quality, especially since you're not inventing something, just making it. If you are inventing something new, make a "Some Assembly Required" roll (MH2, p. 24) instead of a craft roll.

For everyone else, a craft roll is necessary. It's fairest and most balanced to tie the result in to the dollar value of what's being created (much like Gadgeteer does). Off the top of my head, I'd probably do something like:

MOD / ITEM COST ("Up to...")
0 $10
-1 $20
-2 $50
-3 $100
-4 $200
-5 $500
-6 $1,000
etc.

[starslayer]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

That isn't viable. PCs can't create grimoires anyway, not to mention it's stated several times that you can't use magic to get better at magic. You can't cast a spell to give yourself Magery, a ritual that gives you extra FP has the build-in limiter that said FP aren't sacrificable for magical energy, and so on. Grimoires are no exception.

Ok, poor example- but I think the idea still stands. Complexity of gadget == greater difficulty in creating it with RPM; Even if a dollar store stopwatch only costs $1 it should be harder to create then a dollar store flashlight.

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

Sure, that's fair. I would let a caster/gadgeteer waive the need for a roll to determine quality, especially since you're not inventing something, just making it. If you are inventing something new, make a "Some Assembly Required" roll (MH2, p. 24) instead of a craft roll.

For everyone else, a craft roll is necessary. It's fairest and most balanced to tie the result in to the dollar value of what's being created (much like Gadgeteer does). Off the top of my head, I'd probably do something like:

MOD / ITEM COST ("Up to...")
0 $10
-1 $20
-2 $50
-3 $100
-4 $200
-5 $500
-6 $1,000
etc.

Wow- you were MUCH harsher then I was for the sliding scale of cost/penalty.