On Using Advantages as Magic and the Construction of Enchanted Items

[shkspr1048]

How could one conceivably create enchanted items in play when using the "Advantages as Magic" model?

[Anaraxes]

As Gadgets; abilities with the Gadget limitations.

"In play" brings in setting-specific questions. Do you want an enchanted item to be the masterwork of a lifetime? Something a mechanic puts together between adventures? Created on the spot in real time when the need arises?

Pick a rate at which CP can be invested into your magic item. (You may or may not want to require the enchanter to actually spend the CP, but it's one way to have a baseline for different amounts of time.) 1 CP / month gives you something like that once-per-lifetime rate. 1 CP/day lets you put together pretty powerful items in a few weeks to a year. 1 CP/minute means a few hours.

[Darieltis]

Originally Posted by shkspr1048

How could one conceivably create enchanted items in play when using the "Advantages as Magic" model?

I'm actually working on a variation of the invention rules, with the requisite of gadgeteer (renamed Enchanter in this case). I'm trying to figure out how to post it though...I'd like some feedback.

[Refplace]

Here is an easy way I used for a Dwarven enchanter.
In that world there are specifics but the idea can be ported out easy enough.
Dwarves are TL3+2 with the last two techs being based on magic.
They use magic symbols (Runes) in complicated patterns to enchant items and make them better. As it works out they can do pretty much any TL5 device routinely as a race and the game effects and stats are mostly the same but its magic.

An Enchanter in this system is one who can do that but also with Gadgeteering make things faster and improvised and just buy up his TL to create more powerful items. One difference worth noting and porting over is that the items use mana batteries and generators rather then work off electricity.

[Darieltis]

Originally Posted by Darieltis

I'm actually working on a variation of the invention rules, with the requisite of gadgeteer (renamed Enchanter in this case). I'm trying to figure out how to post it though...I'd like some feedback.

Ok, here goes: it's based on Invention rules of the 25 point version of Gadgeteer, modified with some rules from Thaumatology. I also used the conversion of 1CP = 10% starting wealth (Basic Set) = 25 energy (Perks - named items). Most info came directly from the invention rules (some of it copy & paste).

ENCHANTING ITEMS
Before beginning, the player must have some sort of natural talent with the arcane (i.e. Magery or another similar advantage), as well as the Enchanter (25) advantage.
The next step is to describe the proposed enchanted item in a logical manner, and offer an explanation of how it is supposed to work. The item should follow the rules of what is possible in the game world (i.e. no items that resurrect players in a world where this is not possible through magical means).

Required Skills
The primary skill that is used in enchanting magical items is the Enchantment (Will/VH) skill (which gets no bonus from Magery). The enchanter must know this skill to have any chance of success. The Enchantment skill also limits the effective skill possible for enchantments (i.e. the power of the enchanted item is set at the level of the Enchantment skill).
In order to enchant any item, an enchanter must also have the theoretical knowledge of how to effect the specific enchantment, in this case, represented by the Thaumatology skill (IQ/VH). Skill level in Thaumatology also limits the complexity of the item as outlined in the chart below. Note: variations in this base skill for alternative types of magic may be allowed by the GM.

Complexity Skill Level CP Cost
Simple 12 6 or less
Average 15 7 to 30
Complex 18 31 to 75
Amazing 21 More than 75

Complexity
Next, determine the complexity of the enchantment. This is entirely up to the GM, who can assign complexity arbitrarily, but it will usually be based on the number of character points that would be required to purchase the ability to be enchanted into the item - see the table above for details: (i.e. a ring of Catfall, would require 10 CP, and thus be an Average item). Note: certain effects may be inherently more complex to enchant, or simply unavailable in a given setting (e.g. Unaging costs 15 CP, and would normally be considered Average, but an enchanted item bestowing this advantage may be Amazing instead).

Concept
After determining complexity and required skills, the GM makes a secret “Concept roll” against the enchanter's Thaumatology skill to see whether he comes up with a workable theory of how to effect the enchantment. This requires no special equipment – except perhaps a notebook and pen!
The enchanter may roll once per day. Complexity doesn’t affect the time required. There is no penalty to the concept roll for a Simple enchantment, a -2 for an Average one, -4 for a Complex one, or -8 for an Amazing one.
On a success, proceed to the next step. On a failure, the inventor makes no breakthrough but may try again the next day at no additional penalty. On a critical failure, the inventor comes up with a “flawed theory” that looks good but that will never work in practice – go on to the next step, but note that it is doomed to failure.
Successful magical examination an item (which requires Detect Magic with the Analyzing modifier) enchanted with the desired effect gives a +5 on the Concept roll.
Of course, if the enchanter has obtained a treatise detailing the process or enchanted the item before, he can skip this stage altogether!

Workspace
Workspace refers to an area that’s symbolically right, or magically resonant. It’s specially or attuned for enchanting: gathering magical energies comfortably and smoothly. This requirement isn’t generally hard to fulfill. Modifiers are as follows:
‡ Hastily preparing a well-defined area up to about the size of an ordinary room in a private house requires a ceremony lasting 1d minutes (which cannot be reduced) and a roll against Ritual Magic. This includes placing candles, mystic symbols, etc., in the area. Success makes the skill penalty just -1 for the next enchantment only.
‡ Properly readying an area requires at least a one-hour ceremony performed daily for a week, to cleanse it of negative influences (again rolling against Ritual Magic). This eliminates the penalty indefinitely.
‡ A place used constantly often acquires a mystical “charge” that aids any enchantment performed within its defined boundaries. A site used for at least 20 years gives +1; 50 years gives +2; 100 years gives +3; 500 years gives +4; and 1,000 years gives +5 (the maximum). Truly powerful mystical centers are likely to be claimed by magical traditions or factions, who may or may not allow others to use them. If a space is left unused and untended, then the GM decides how quickly its bonus decays.

Enchanting the Item
The next step is to enchant the item. This requires a roll against the Enchantment skill. The GM makes this roll in secret. Note: All the benefits listed for Concept rolls apply equally to Enchantment rolls.
On a success, the enchanter is able to create the enchanted item. On a failure, he may try again, provided he has the time and money (see below). On a critical failure, an explosion or accident occurs. This inflicts at least 2d damage to the inventor and destroys all materials, including the base item. The enchanter must begin again from scratch.
If the enchanter was working with a flawed theory, he will never create the enchanted item (this is why the GM rolls in secret!), but a critical success on the Enchantment roll lets him realize that his theory was bad.
Time Required: Enchantment rolls require 1d-2 days if the enchantment is Simple, 2d days if Average, 1d months if Complex, or 3d months if Amazing. Physically huge items (e.g., airships and siege engines) may take longer, at the GM’s discretion. Minimum time is always one day.
Cost: The enchanter must supply the base item to be enchanted, which must be the equivalent of fine quality (CF +9). Most will be ornate as well (see Low Tech p. 59).
In addition, the item must incorporate materials which are magically appropriate to the desired effect (see Magically Potent Materials, p. M222). The cost of these materials = (10% of campaign starting wealth) x the cost of the enchantment as an ability (i.e. enchanting an object with Infravision (15) in a TL3 world would require $100 x 15 = $1,500 worth of materials). Note: reusable materials will generally be incorporated into the item, while consumable materials are used up during the process.
Raw magic (Thaumatology p 227-229) may be used to replace 4CP worth of materials per point of raw magic. Raw magic used in this way is always consumed in the process.
Quirks: Success by 3 or more on the Enchantment roll results in no quirks, while a lesser success gives the item 1d/2 minor quirks (details are up to the GM).


Any feedback?

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Darieltis

Ok, here goes: it's based on Invention rules of the 25 point version of Gadgeteer, modified with some rules from Thaumatology. I also used the conversion of 1CP = 10% starting wealth (Basic Set) = 25 energy (Perks - named items). Most info came directly from the invention rules (some of it copy & paste).


Enchanting the Item

Cost: The enchanter must supply the base item to be enchanted, which must be the equivalent of fine quality (CF +9). Most will be ornate as well (see Low Tech p. 59).
In addition, the item must incorporate materials which are magically appropriate to the desired effect (see Magically Potent Materials, p. M222). The cost of these materials = (10% of campaign starting wealth) x the cost of the enchantment as an ability (i.e. enchanting an object with Infravision (15) in a TL3 world would require $100 x 15 = $1,500 worth of materials). Note: reusable materials will generally be incorporated into the item, while consumable materials are used up during the process.
Raw magic (Thaumatology p 227-229) may be used to replace 4CP worth of materials per point of raw magic. Raw magic used in this way is always consumed in the process.
Quirks: Success by 3 or more on the Enchantment roll results in no quirks, while a lesser success gives the item 1d/2 minor quirks (details are up to the GM).


Any feedback?

The process will make for very common magic items unless you restrict the Enchanter advantage significantly.
Even then items are pretty cheap.
You can address this for NPCs by making a very high markup, especially for new items and lower markups for ones where the Enchanter already knows how to do it. PCs will get a huge benefit in cost but paid for that with campaign downtime and points.
It seems workable and I do like the base wealth % + CP idea, wish I had thought of that. I have just been using an arbitrary number which is a lot more work. Mind if I borrow a bit for my games should I rerun those enchanters?
I like Rune/Sigil/Syntactic magic and that are Ritual Magic offer sub skills which tend to make an enchanter more specialized. But thats a preference.

[Lamech]

Originally Posted by shkspr1048

How could one conceivably create enchanted items in play when using the "Advantages as Magic" model?

Someone with the correct skills/abilities/items to enchant (can be just about anything) makes an item. The item itself is a advantage built with gadget limitations. The time it takes to do this should be anywhere from 100 hours per cp (if enchanting has high requirements) or 400 hours per cp (if enchanting has minor requirements) OR you require things like rare materials, sacrifices, character points ect. to make enchanted items. You can also combine the two approaches and allow time spent to give some CP and other sources to both work together to make the magic item.

So for example: To make a magic item magic ritual (enchantment)-15 and alchemy-15 are needed. Every 200 hours spent working on a magic item equals one CP towards the advantage. Finally sacrificing other sentient creatures provides an additional CP per sacrifice, up to half the items CP cost.

[Darieltis]

Originally Posted by Refplace

The process will make for very common magic items unless you restrict the Enchanter advantage significantly.
Even then items are pretty cheap.
You can address this for NPCs by making a very high markup, especially for new items and lower markups for ones where the Enchanter already knows how to do it. PCs will get a huge benefit in cost but paid for that with campaign downtime and points.
It seems workable and I do like the base wealth % + CP idea, wish I had thought of that. I have just been using an arbitrary number which is a lot more work. Mind if I borrow a bit for my games should I rerun those enchanters?
I like Rune/Sigil/Syntactic magic and that are Ritual Magic offer sub skills which tend to make an enchanter more specialized. But thats a preference.

I was aiming for mor common magic items, so that was intended. Feel free to use/adapt as you wish.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Darieltis

I was aiming for mor common magic items, so that was intended. Feel free to use/adapt as you wish.

Thanks.
Ok then your probably good to go.
I believe your even supported by a similar mechanic in Cyberpunk but lost that book in a move.

[shkspr1048]

Well, I have to say that Darieltis' Enchantment rules look exceptional, but I have to ask, is Enchanter (25) an actual Advantage listed in a book somewhere, or is it just a re-done version of Gadgeteer?