GURPS Monster Hunters 1 - preliminary data file. Anyone want to finish it?

[PK]

Actually, minor note for the Sleuth's wildcards -- I don't think I'd do it as packages. It's just a bit too hard to do so. I'd do it as a normal choicelist that needs exactly 60 points and at least 2 items, then offer:

SK:Detective! #codes(upto 36pts, downto 24pts)
SK:Talker! #codes(upto 24pts, downto 12pts)
SK:Ten-Hut! #codes(upto 24pts, downto 12pts)

Then just put in the box instructions, "You MUST take Detective! and Talker!, but Ten-Hut! is optional." That covers all possible legal combinations from p. 17, unless I'm missing something.

(Technically, the user could deliberately ignore the instructions *and* the template rules and take Detective! and Ten-Hut! to make the box happy . . . but really, you can only try to idiot-proof things so much.)

[RobKamm]

As I recall from the DF templates that I did this might be easier for the user if there were separate options in a choicelist for each possible combination -- having a choicelist with upto/downto options got unpleasant to use really quickly. And spelling out the options is pretty easy:

1- Detective!-16 and Talker!-15
2- Detective!-16, Talker!-14, and Ten-Hut!-14
3- Detective!-15, Talker!-15, and Ten-Hut!-14
4- Detective!-15, Talker!-14, and Ten-Hut!-15

[Bruno]

An update on the Inhumans!

I'm slowly grinding through figuring out all the choices based on other choices. For the current version of GCA, the user is just going to have to do some of the thinking for themselves - for example, they will be presented with all the Know Your Enemy skills and will have to pick the correct ones for their race "by hand".


For the Demon template, that one option that upgrades DR to 6 and removes Tough Skin is going to have a kludge custom advantage that costs 18 points, adds 2 DR, and you'll just have to remember it's better than Tough Skin. I'm remarkably comfortable with this :)

I'm wading through the skills list and hope to have a "beta" ready to go by next week.

I'm also still working on the Low Tech stuff (slowly)

[Daeglan]

any update to this stuff?

[RobKamm]

I've been playing with the Commando template with an eye towards testing Eric's possible solution. Sadly, no, adding the aliaslist to the subsequent select list doesn't seem to work (but it doesn't crash the program, so that's something).

I think I'll experiment with a dummy-trait in each of the character template selects. Something like "_MotivationalLensTrait". The cost would be variable and defined by the user. It would be taboo to itself (thus calling attention to it for subsequent replacement). The user would then need to go to a separate Motivational Lens Additional Choices template to select the appropriate trait(s). This is pretty ugly, and would require close use of the book -- users couldn't just sit down at the computer and whip out a character easily.

It has been suggested that the motivational lenses could be done as separate templates called from within the character templates. The problem here is that when you call a template (lens) from within a template you can't have select lists in the subordinate lens.

I'm thinking that we'll have to use the alternative technique. Have a hidden attribute, call it MotivationalLensCount, that defaults to 0. Each lens then gives(+1 to ST:MotivationalLens). Then include a needs(ST:MotivationalLens = 1) in the character templates. This will leave an unfulfilled needs in GCA that can be picked up by the user by going in and selecting an appropriate lens from a separate list of templates.

I'll upload to the repository in the next couple of days with a working sample using the Commando and at least a couple of the lenses in place.

[Daeglan]

Wouldn't it be easier to just build one of each of each templates for each of the lenses? Sure It would make up a larger file. But it might be easier to get working using the existing program.

[PK]

Originally Posted by Daeglan

Wouldn't it be easier to just build one of each of each templates for each of the lenses? Sure It would make up a larger file. But it might be easier to get working using the existing program.

That's a lot more work, and will result in a ton of templates. It's really simpler to build each champion template as a template, then each motivational lens as a template. Personally, I'd avoid the fancy taboo/prereq thing and just include an #x msg at the end of the template saying something like, "Once you're done, remember that you must add a Motivational Lens template as well!"

[Daeglan]

Hmmmm. I thought that was why god invented Copy Paste. You only have to type each section once.

[PK]

Originally Posted by Daeglan

Hmmmm. I thought that was why god invented Copy Paste. You only have to type each section once.

Not true. You have to integrate the Advantages as well. But more to the point, it means the user who loads MH1 and MH4 is faced, not with 20 templates to choose from in the little menu, but 200! Seriously, that's just a huge flood.

And then every time a book adds a new motivation lens, you have to make 20 new versions of it instead of one. And if there's a new template introduced in MH7, you have to make nine new versions of it instead of one. And if both are done, then you have to take that into account, which means the GDFs for each book will have to "double back" and revamp templates from earlier books!

No. If there's one thing I've learned from computer programming, it's that modules are good. Templates should be one thing. Lenses another. The fact that they're presented as one unit in the book doesn't mean that it should automatically be that way in GCA.

[RobKamm]

Doing each template/lens as a separate entry would generate a ton of templates that would make the Dungeon Fantasy line's template menus look trim and concise.

Also, it wouldn't be as simple as copy/paste (though that would be the first step). Each template would have to have each lens incorporated into it. Then each one would have to be run (and if I'm entering it it would have to be run a dozen or so times) to catch most of the bugs. Heck, I'm still catching stuff in DF1 and that file has been in users' hands for years.

Right now I'm just trying to get the Commando in -- the select lists are big and each one needs to be checked as it gets entered. I found out a long time ago that entering the entire template and then going back to debug is a recipe for crashes. Better to go step by step so that I know roughly what is causing the crash (or whatever error comes up). Once it is in I'll put in a few M-lenses and figure out how to link them to the template (RPK's suggestion is simpler than my solution, but mine puts a reminder icon on the screen).

In other words, it is coming along.