[DF] Forgotten Realms as DF setting

[Novembermike]

Originally Posted by robertsconley

Due to the way the D&D 3.0 work, classes function much like GURPS templates and lens do. Use them as a guideline to come up with the equivalent in GURPS. I didn't say to try to make a literal translation.

The problem is that a lot of DnD classes are pretty retarded as far as this goes. The fighter is the worst case, where it doesn't really suggest anything for a gurps template besides a reasonable set of weapon skills, but there are a number of classes that try to be both prescriptive and descriptive and fail. Barbarians are supposed to be people who live in the wilds but they really need to be front line fighters rather than archers or whatever because of their rage ability, Rangers are supposed to be masters of traveling through the woods but they are forced to dual wield one handed weapons, Paladins are supposed to be knights of a god but they're forced to have a mount and wear heavy armor etc. I think you're better off just thinking about basic fantasy archetypes (namely the warrior, the wizard, the priest and the thief) and basing the characters on some variation of those concepts. That's what most of the authors in the setting did. Try building Drizzt in 3.0e and in GURPS and you'll see why it's not that useful to start from the DnD classes.

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by Novembermike

Try building Drizzt in 3.0e and in GURPS and you'll see why it's not that useful to start from the DnD classes.

What do you mean? He was clearly a Multiclass Ranger 6/ Wizard 4/ Mary Sue 10, not including his ECL for Drow Renegade Paragon. =P

[CousinX]

Originally Posted by Novembermike

The problem with this is that most of the 3e classes are terrible. You can work out the concepts easily enough, but keep in mind that while fighters are gaining a small bonus to combat (that is directly countered by rising ACs) casters are gaining huge bonuses to their casting ability. Only use the classes to say "This guy is a school trained fighter" or "This guy is a barbarian from the frozen tundra", not mechanical conversions.

I don't see why this is a problem if you're using the DF templates ... there's no need to convert anything, unless there's a template that you feel doesn't quite capture some special, FR-specific class. And in that case, all you usually need is to tweak an existing DF template. And if the 250-point templates are too high-powered, use Eric B. Smith's 100- to 200-point versions.

If you want to emulate "Prestige Classes," just get DF11: Power-Ups and package some of the power-ups into a special "Prestige Lens" that has certain requirements, based on the prestige class in question.

[Mgellis]

I'm still in the planning stages for my GURPS Forgotten Realms campaign, but my approach was not to convert all the classes, etc. I'm keeping the setting, the history, etc., but other than that it's GURPS not d20. I'm just letting people build whatever characters they want with 150 points (with the obvious limitation that it has to be appropriate for GFR) without regard to classes, etc. The magic system is going to simply be the standard spellcasting system.

(I'm actually going to work this into the plot...why are the Forgotten Realms suddenly operating according to a new set of physical and metaphysical laws? There has been a reality quake. The dragons know something has happened, they remember that things were different once, but they don't know exactly what happened or why. Everyone else just thinks this is how the world has always been.)

If someone wants a specific feat, etc., then I'll figure out how to model it in GURPS. It's not hard...a lot of the feats appear to just be talents, techniques, or skills that aren't on the main skill list.

So far, no one has wanted a GURPS version of a prestige class, but I think one way to handle a lot of them would be as a Martial Arts Style or a Magical Style.

So far, I've got one player who wants to run a knight (but NOT a paladin) and another one who wants a half-celestial/half-centaur...the templates from Fantasy and Dungeon Fantasy were quite helpful for that one. I'm not sure what the other players want to run yet.

So...how many points is Enemy (Bane) worth? :)

[Tyneras]

I think everyone who isn't a Banite has Enemy (Bane) by default, unless you mean he's been singled out and has a god gunning for him... then a Large Organization, Hunter.

My solution for magic in our current campaign (also in the Forgotten Realms) was that there have always been 2 schools of magic. Academic magic, which is the vancian system, and tactical adventurer magic, the GURPS system. It's a trade-off, power or flexibility, and academic magic is what wizards who put down roots in cities, towns and towers normally use, so it's what most peasants think of when you say magic.

[Pragmatic]

Originally Posted by Novembermike

The problem is that a lot of DnD classes are pretty retarded as far as this goes.

I believe there's a communications failure here.

You're talking about core classes. I think he's talking about prestige classes. So, for instance, a Red Wizard of Thay:

Alignment: Any non-good
Race: Human from Thay
Spellcasting Ability: Ability to cast 3rd-level arcane spells (note: specialist wizards, not general)
Feats: Focus Tattoo and at least 3 metamagic or item creation feats

Class Skills: Alchemy, Concentration, Craft, Innuendo, Intimidate, Knowledge, Profession, Scry, Spellcraft

Enhanced Specialization: Lose access to additional schools. (In D&D3E, each school of magic has multiple options for schools to lose access to. For example, Transmuters lose access to either (1) Conjuration, (2) Evocation, (3) Abjuration and Enchantment, or (4) any three schools. A Transmuter who chose (3) at level 1 would have to choose either (1), (2), or (4), without overlapping (3), upon becoming a Red Wizard.)

Specialist Defense: Additional bonuses to defending against their chosen school.

Bonus Feat: One additional metamagic, item creation, or Spell Mastery feat.

Circle Leader: Can act as the center of a circle. (Some way of boosting normal magic via mana from the other casters.)

Scribe Tattoo: Can scribe tattoos on initiates and bring them into their circle.

Great Circle Leader: Up to 9 assistants, instead of just 5.

Spell Power: Their chosen school is harder to save against and overcomes spell resistance easier.

Now forget all the D&D terminology. What is the gist of the prestige class? Keep the general flavor, lose the clunky mechanics? Can we turn this into a lens, on top of the stuff from the DF series?