[LT] Blunt trauma

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by combatmedic

In the real world, yes. But do the GURPS rules reflect this relationship well?

Obviously I'm a tad biased here, but I think the current GURPS rules do pretty well. there are edge cases for small-caliber long-rod penetrators vs thin armor, but in the "normal" firearms range they're excellent.

One of the places that could use a re-work would be 1/2D ranges, which used to be a weird combo of effective range and actual loss in velocity in 3e and previous, and when the Acc stopped dropping at 1/2D range in 4e (good rule change!) the 1/2D should have been recalibrated to represent an actual 1/2D range. I've got a formula for it that works well for supersonic projectiles, not so well for subsonic.

But guns and armor are right where they need to be. For more resolution, instead of 1" = DR 70 = 20d, you might say you get (say) 40d per inch.

You'd need to re-scale HP to something more, say a human norm of 20 if you wanted to keep the current wound channel modifiers (which actually can be shown to follow a pretty good logic, though not one based as much on principles as penetration).

As I said before, my next project is to take the hand weapons damage and see what I can do with them.

[DanHoward]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

Obviously I'm a tad biased here, but I think the current GURPS rules do pretty well. there are edge cases for small-caliber long-rod penetrators vs thin armor, but in the "normal" firearms range they're excellent.

One of the places that could use a re-work would be 1/2D ranges, which used to be a weird combo of effective range and actual loss in velocity in 3e and previous, and when the Acc stopped dropping at 1/2D range in 4e (good rule change!) the 1/2D should have been recalibrated to represent an actual 1/2D range. I've got a formula for it that works well for supersonic projectiles, not so well for subsonic.

But guns and armor are right where they need to be. For more resolution, instead of 1" = DR 70 = 20d, you might say you get (say) 40d per inch.

You'd need to re-scale HP to something more, say a human norm of 20 if you wanted to keep the current wound channel modifiers (which actually can be shown to follow a pretty good logic, though not one based as much on principles as penetration).

As I said before, my next project is to take the hand weapons damage and see what I can do with them.

I'd do a similar thing. Double all DRs and firearms damage so they are still compatible and then look at how to make the rest of the system work - such as doubling HP.

[Anthony]

A significant part of the problem is the ST damage tables, which are informed by two contradictory desires: a desire to have ST 10 = 1d, and a desire to make every +1 ST significant. That simply doesn't work, because to make every point of ST matter you need 1d per 4 ST, and thus ST 10 should be 2d+2...

[Anders Gabrielsson]

If you wanted to have sw = thr + 2 (approximately) and still have every point of ST matter you could offset the tables one step. This would make sw = thr + 2 half the time and thr + 1 or thr + 3 half the time, depending on in which direction you do the offset.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by Anders Gabrielsson

If you wanted to have sw = thr + 2 (approximately) and still have every point of ST matter you could offset the tables one step. This would make sw = thr + 2 half the time and thr + 1 or thr + 3 half the time, depending on in which direction you do the offset.

Or have weapon stats give an add to ST for calculating damage, instead of a straight add to damage. Some weapons giving odd adds and others even adds would make each ST point at least potentially meaningful. However, that means picking up a new weapon requires looking up the damage table, rather than just grabbing the damage scores on the character sheet.

If radically redesigning the system (to an extent that won't happen until Hasbro owns SJG*), you could double all damage and HP scores. That would make it simple to have +1 ST = +1 Damage.

* There you go. Try to sleep tonight.

[Crakkerjakk]

At least on the "1 pt of ST gets you 1 pt of damage" front you could always just take the suggestion that Striking ST is overpriced, leave it at [5/lvl], and tweak it so that each point of ST gives you +1 thrust and cap all realistic stats at 15. Leaving +/- 30% as the variation, that gives a max Lifting ST of 19.5, which seems about right. Simply note that Striking ST in excess of 15 is generally not realistic.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by RyanW

Or have weapon stats give an add to ST for calculating damage, instead of a straight add to damage. Some weapons giving odd adds and others even adds would make each ST point at least potentially meaningful. However, that means picking up a new weapon requires looking up the damage table, rather than just grabbing the damage scores on the character sheet.

One easier way to do this is if there was only a single damage chart, and weapons with leverage got a multiplier proportional to the amount of leverage instead.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by RyanW

If radically redesigning the system (to an extent that won't happen until Hasbro owns SJG*), you could double all damage and HP scores.

Or you could do away with linear damage and make damage be a Damage check vs a Toughness check, where ST-based weapons have a damage check of ST+X.

[lwcamp]

Originally Posted by Anthony

A significant part of the problem is the ST damage tables, which are informed by two contradictory desires: a desire to have ST 10 = 1d, and a desire to make every +1 ST significant. That simply doesn't work, because to make every point of ST matter you need 1d per 4 ST, and thus ST 10 should be 2d+2...

You can do it, but you get things like ST 10 = 1d, ST 11 = 1d but add 1 if you roll a 5 or a 6, ST 12 = 1d but add 1 if you roll a 3 or more, ST 13 = 1d+1, and so on.

Luke

[Ultraviolet]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

I'd do a similar thing. Double all DRs and firearms damage so they are still compatible and then look at how to make the rest of the system work - such as doubling HP.

That could work. Because it seems that the somewhat moderate damage of 2d+2 for a 9mmP is easily matched or exceeded by a beefy fighter with an axe. Sure, that fighter is well above average in many fantasy games. But ST13 is not unrealistic for a dedicated fighting man, that's 2d-1. Give him an Axe for sw+2 and have him make a Commítted, Strong attack - and there you have 2d+2.