[Spaceships] Emulating the Space Opera/Macross treatment of Missiles?

[vicky_molokh]

Greetings, all!

Under many setups, Spaceships combats devolves into battles of saturation of (usually prox-fused) missiles against point defense. What would be the ideal setup to make space opera/Macross style of combat with regards to missiles.

I mean that missiles are launched either in single shots or large salvos, with long pauses between salvos, and missile dodges are tactical manoeuvres lasting several turns and involving several high-G turns, where turning rates, Hnd, and tactical decisions do matter (as opposed to raw Dodge that is identical for two pilots of same skill flying same craft SM).

Thanks in advance!

[Phantasm]

Well, for one, I'd say that the Hnd of the craft would factor into the Dodge roll. I believe that "(Skill/2)+3, modified by Hnd" is actually listed in Campaigns under Vehicular Dodge, but I don't have it with me at the moment to be sure.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by tbrock1031

Well, for one, I'd say that the Hnd of the craft would factor into the Dodge roll. I believe that "(Skill/2)+3, modified by Hnd" is actually listed in Campaigns under Vehicular Dodge, but I don't have it with me at the moment to be sure.

Yes, but ships with same SM and same % of engines typically have same Hnd (because you need a huge sAccel difference to change Hnd, and combat ships typically all have the same, most reasonable for combat manoeuvring, engine available).

[vierasmarius]

Macross is a highly cinematic setting. I'd let ace pilots make use of things like Enhanced Dodge (Vehicle), Neural-Interfaces (from Pyramid 3-30) and personal combat options like Acrobatic (Aerobatic?) Dodge and Feverish Defense.

[SuedodeuS]

Mix the Deceptive Attack mechanics in with Acrobatic Dodge. We'll call it Risky Maneuvering. When there's an incoming salvo, make a Pilot roll. On a success, you get +2 to Dodge - on a failure, you get -2. Unlike Acrobatic Dodge, however, Risky Maneuvering allows you to take more of a risk - every -2 you take to the Pilot roll (cannot reduce effective skill below 10) grants an additional +1 to Dodge on a success. Risky Maneuvering should probably use up a little delta-v for reaction drives.

An alternative would be to allow a successful Piloting roll to split up a salvo, allowing for multiple Dodge rolls. I'm not certain how to work that one to be balanced, however.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Greetings, all!

Under many setups, Spaceships combats devolves into battles of saturation of (usually prox-fused) missiles against point defense. What would be the ideal setup to make space opera/Macross style of combat with regards to missiles.

You need a couple of things. First of all, missile launchers need rate of fire limiters. This is hard to do in a plausible manner, though external power and/or guidance can do the job with modest amounts of handwaving. Secondly, missiles must be limited to pursuit intercept, rather than being able to simply angle to intercept a ship going in the other direction. This basically requires TL 7 or lower missile controls. Third, you probably need atmosphere or pseudo-atmosphere.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Anthony

You need a couple of things. First of all, missile launchers need rate of fire limiters. This is hard to do in a plausible manner, though external power and/or guidance can do the job with modest amounts of handwaving. Secondly, missiles must be limited to pursuit intercept, rather than being able to simply angle to intercept a ship going in the other direction. This basically requires TL 7 or lower missile controls. Third, you probably need atmosphere or pseudo-atmosphere.

1. So guided, not homing? Guess that's doable in settings with lower electronic TL (or where ECM tech>Homing tech).
2. Again, given that plenty of settings have weak (or clunky) computers, seems doable.
3. Why?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

3. Why?

Because you need a limited top speed, combined with the ability to turn around and chase. That doesn't work with space maneuver -- if you miss on the first pass, turning around ranges from impractical to totally impossible, depending on drive endurance.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Because you need a limited top speed, combined with the ability to turn around and chase. That doesn't work with space maneuver -- if you miss on the first pass, turning around ranges from impractical to totally impossible, depending on drive endurance.

A Boost drive (SSvii-25) will do, I think.

[SuedodeuS]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

A Boost drive (SSvii-25) will do, I think.

Honestly, the kind of maneuvering ships have in settings like this tends to be atmospheric anyway, so it may simply be more in-genre to have pseudoatmospheric flight.

For Rate of Fire limitations, simply give missiles long loading times. Some settings even have missiles (or at least some missiles, like the Murabasa missiles from Vandread) that are carried around unfueled, fueling them up only when about to launch a salvo. This could be justified in a variety of ways - "activated" missile fuel is extremely unstable, so you want to carry it around in an incomplete form; fuel is rare and/or expensive, so you only want to fuel up a missile with how much it needs, rather than waste fuel; fuel is heavy, so fueling missiles with the minimum to properly engage a target means they'll actually be accelerating more rapidly; etc.

For guided vs homing, homing missiles seem most appropriate (but proximity detonations are either unused or much less effective than GURPS gives them credit for). Ideally, anytime a homing missile is dodged, it has to make a skill roll to reacquire the target - otherwise, it spirals around uselessly and/or flies off elsewhere. You could even have Risky Maneuvering give a malus to reacquiring. This would result in each Dodge attempt sending several missiles off-target until all have lost the target.


Here are a few additional ideas...

Risky Maneuvering: Already covered in my previous post, although it bears mentioning what it represents. Risky Maneuvering is when the character accelerates toward the missile and then tries to maneuver out of the way, giving the missile less time to adjust. Taking a penalty means you wait longer before dodging, giving the missile even less time. Done right, you can more easily avoid a missile or salvo - but screw up and you'll be colliding with a higher relative velocity! In theory, attempting this against beam weapons might work as well - in which case, you're throwing off your opponent's aim. Both test pilots in Macross Plus used Risky Maneuvering against missile salvoes during testing.
For balance, the bonus for Risky Maneuvering (or perhaps just the additional bonus from taking a penalty) only allows you to avoid extra shots in a salvo - that is, the bonus only applies if you would have succeeded at the Dodge anyway.

Using Cover: When being pursued by a projectile/salvo, you can opt to fly close to some sort of cover - space debris, asteroids, other ships, etc - in order to try and make the missile run into it. Make a Piloting check, with a bonus or malus set by the character. Success skims the obstacle (how close depends on what modifier was set), failure results in a collision (although another ship can attempt to Dodge you). The projectile or salvo must also make a Piloting check, at the same bonus or malus as the character, with the same consequences. Thus, a skilled pilot could skim a series of asteroids in a cinematically-dense asteroid belt to cause a pursuing salvo to destroy itself. Optionally, such an action could give a comparable penalty to attacks from beam weapons (causing them to hit the cover). Obi-Wan Kenobi managed this against Jango Fett's missiles in Attack of the Clones, while Spike Spiegel used it to avoid laser fire from a defense satellite in Cowboy Bebop.

Killing the Engine: In some settings, missiles home in on drive signatures. By turning off the drive at just the right time, you can successfully avoid a missile salvo (using the drive to maneuver) and prevent it from being able to reacquire your ship (from shutting down the drive). This requires Risky Maneuvering to pull off, and imposes a -4 penalty on the Piloting roll and -2 to Dodge (due to multitasking). Success on this roll means the missiles in the salvo can no longer acquire your ship if they miss.
Pilots in atmosphere (or psuedo-atmosphere, if they still maneuver in this manner with the drive turned off) have an easier time. So long as their vessel is capable of gliding (streamlined with wings), they can switch off the drive before Dodging (rather than having to time it just right). Pulling this stunt off still requires Risky Maneuvering, but the pilot rolls against Piloting (Glider) at no penalty, rather than Piloting (Aerospace or other appropriate specialty) at -4, and doesn't suffer a Dodge penalty. This typically has the same effect (Glider defaults to most other specialties at -4), although some pilots might have Piloting (Glider) above default. Isamu, a pilot with ranks in Piloting (Glider), pulled off this trick at the end of his fight with Guld in Macross Plus.