GURPS Exalted - Once More, From The Top

[Joel]

TBH the 20xEssense points for charms seems kind of low for some of the effects, you'd be hard pressed to get Shinmaic Calibration on just 140 points.

Personally I'd just set some skill & attribute caps, make templates for castes & different types of exalted, and have the players build appropriate charms/abilities and artifact-gadgets on their own*, which granted is more or less what you were considering in your old gurps exalted thread(s).

*Though some prepared examples might be a good idea.

A problem with converting charms that can be seen in the GURPS exalted pdf is that the characters become unweildy mechanically and point-inefficient.

http://www.bazzalisk.org/GURPS%20Exa...%20Exalted.pdf

The dragonbloods stated there ended up at 1300 points or so, but you could make characters at equal competence for half that if you didnt use charms that become inefficient for their costs when converted to GURPS. Also the char sheets become cluttered and awkward.

They don't turn out like characters built 'naturally' in GURPS.

[Jürgen Hubert]

Originally Posted by Joel

TBH the 20xEssense points for charms seems kind of low for some of the effects, you'd be hard pressed to get Shinmaic Calibration on just 140 points.

My progression is somewhat different - my old table is here, but essentially it goes like this:

Essence 5: Base Skills up to 20
Essence 6: Base Skills up to 25
Essence 7: Base Skills up to 30
Essence 8: Base Skills up to 35
Essence 9+: No limits for Base Skills

I assume you meant Shinmaic Communion. This is an Essence 7 charm, so a Solar capable of learning that would be able to spend up to 200 character on the base charm. And note that I said base charm - with the new Charm Techniques, a Solar can and should be able to add all sorts of enhancements to it which makes it even more powerful. This will cost him significant amounts of additional motes, of course - and additional character points if he buys the techniques up. But the end effect will be quite powerful.

The dragonbloods stated there ended up at 1300 points or so, but you could make characters at equal competence for half that if you didnt use charms that become inefficient for their costs when converted to GURPS. Also the char sheets become cluttered and awkward.

Which is why I am so enamored of the basic system in GURPS Psionic Powers. It's a different path of doing things, but in the end the overall style should be similar...

[Balthial]

I was just thinking about this the other day. I'm an old Exalted fan but I don't know GURPS too well. I agree that Exalted 2E is an epic disaster. A few thoughts:

1. I agree that you shouldn't try to emulate rules too carefully - I might go even further in this direction, I mean, I'm not sure I would bother with charms at all. But OK, I don't want to rain on your parade.
2. (not used)
3. What rules set are you using? Ie which cinematic rules, what advantages?
4. What is the base template for Solar Exalted?
5. What are the stats for Daiklaves et cetera?
6. What advantages must be taken as charms? Can I take Combat Reflexes normally?
7. Is there a general "Power Modifier" for taking powers as Charms?
8. How do you handle Anima Manifestitations? A 500 m column of light that advertises your presence is worth something in any setting.
9. I think you're going to struggle to get everything pointed using existing GURPS guidelines.
10. Am I right that one mote of essence = 1 FP?
11. How do you deal with Sorcerery?

On specific charms:

1. Excellency: I would stat this as a talent. The math is easier and it more closely resembles the original. I would say any of the 25 Exalted abilities would be a 5 point talent.
2. Craftsmen Needs No Tools: To me it seems like at most a 10 point advantage. Although I guess it is dependent on tech level.
3. Wonder Forging Genius: Personally I would just let people learn the higher TL skills as they have the opportunity. If they can learn them without a tutor that's something like "Ally (Sidereal Librarian) or Ally (First Age Self Appears in Dreams)". To me Tech Levels are really only "Current" and "First Age".
4. Ox Body Technique: I think the cap is too low. To me you're looking at up to 60 total hit points for the high end Solars.

[Joel]

No, meant Shinmaic Calibration (Scroll of Errata p. 69), has Shinmaic Communion as a pre-requisite.

[Jürgen Hubert]

Originally Posted by Balthial

1. I agree that you shouldn't try to emulate rules too carefully - I might go even further in this direction, I mean, I'm not sure I would bother with charms at all. But OK, I don't want to rain on your parade.

For my system, "charms" is mainly a shorthand for "advantages used in a framework similar to GURPS Powers and GURPS Psionic Powers" (especially the latter). I will only rarely bother with prerequisites and the like.

3. What rules set are you using? Ie which cinematic rules, what advantages?

Most cinematic stuff, probably. Definitely the Chambara rules.

4. What is the base template for Solar Exalted?

I will get to that later, as I judged the Charm framework the most difficult and yet most central part of the conversion. The template will contain Trained By A Master.

5. What are the stats for Daiklaves et cetera?

Also to be done later. Once I've figured out the charms, I can see how they interact with artifacts.

6. What advantages must be taken as charms? Can I take Combat Reflexes normally?

In general, most mundane advantages - Combat Reflexes included - can be taken normally, without being bought as charms.

7. Is there a general "Power Modifier" for taking powers as Charms?

Yes, though it is +0%. Solar charms don't really have much in the way of weaknesses, or else the Priomordials would have used them in the Primordial War. It was the whole point of the Unconquered Sun to triumph over all opposition, and this is reflected in his Exalted.

8. How do you handle Anima Manifestitations? A 500 m column of light that advertises your presence is worth something in any setting.

An Obvious limitation to the Peripheral Essence Pool.

9. I think you're going to struggle to get everything pointed using existing GURPS guidelines.

Well, I think that using the Charm/Charm Techniques framework outlined above it should be possible to create a conversion that is no more complex than the original, and a great deal more robust and flexible.

10. Am I right that one mote of essence = 1 FP?

For the purpose of limitations, yes. The Essence Pool is essentially an Energy Pool.

11. How do you deal with Sorcerery?

That's admittedly a major headache. I will probably have to build spells as custom advantages, and maybe simply introduce a cap on the various Circles of Sorcery/Necromancy to represent their various power levels.

[Jürgen Hubert]

Oh, and regarding Supernatural Martial Arts:

The basic writeups of skills, techniques etc. will be as in GURPS Martial Arts (which I am not very familiar with, so this part of the conversion will have to wait). However, in addition to those, each style will also have charms and charm techniques similar to what is described above. Furthermore, instead of the level of the highest prerequisite skill capping the character points of the charm, the lowest primary skill will cap it. The character point multiplier will depend on whether the Martial Art is Terrestial, Celestial, or Sidereal (Sidereal Martial Arts will likely get a multiplier of x8 or x9 - slightly weaker than equivalent Solar charms, as it should be. Since Elder Sidereals will have very high skill levels, this will still make them a potent threat...).

The main advantage of Martial Arts (apart from having very high base combat skills) will be that you can get charms in this way which are completely out-of-theme for your type of Exalted. For instance, Solar charms won't give you the ability to generate poison as that's out of type - so you learn a Martial Arts style that does give you that ability...

[Jürgen Hubert]

I think it would be a good idea to demonstrate how my system works:

Archery

Glorious Solar Bow
2.8 points per level
Prerequisite Skills: Artillery, Beam Weapons, Blowpipe, Bow, Crossbow, Gunner, Guns, Liquid Projector, Sling, Zen Archery

The Solar internalizes the essence of bows, developing his own understanding of what a bow should be. This "internal bow" hs the following statistics:

Damage 1d imp/level, 1/2 D 500, Max 500, Acc 3, RoF 1, Shots 1 (2), Recoil 1.

Alas, the real world is rarely as good as the Solar can imagine it to be. The Solar still needs to hold a physical bow to use this charm, and whenever the physical bow and the internal bow have different statistics, the worse value is used (though in case the physical bow has better statistics, the Solar can still use these values to attack normally, without using the charm). By itself, this charm doesn't do anything - its real purpose is to enable the various charm techniques which improve the performance of the bow, and any such improvements may exceed the base statistics of the physical bow (though they derive from them, if the relevant statistics of the physical bow are worse than those of the internal bow).

Solars may develop similar Charms for other ranged weapons, such as crossbows, firewands, artillery and so forth. All these count as Alternate Attacks, which means that all but the most powerful of the Charms cost only 1/5 in character points. Furthermore, all charm techniques developed for one version work for all other versions of this charm, using the relevant skill values as the defaults.

Statistics: Impaling Attack (Increased 1/2 Range x50, +25%; Increased Max Range x5, +10%; Solar Charm +0%; Breakable (DR 3-5, Size Modifier -2), -35%; Can be Stolen (Contest of ST); -30%; Limited by Power of Physical Bow -20%; Limited Use (2 seconds to reload a single shot), -15%).


Accuracy without Distance
Hard
Default: Prerequisite-5; cannot exceed prerequisite.

This technique allows the archer to ignore all range penalties.


Arrow Storm Technique
Hard
Default: Prerequisite-5; cannot exceed prerequisite.

The arrow arches high into the air, and then duplicates in flight, attacking everyone in a 2 yard radius. For a greater penalty, a larger area may be attacked. As usual, a Solar may buy off up to -20 worth of penalties from this technique.

Radius Penalty
2 yards -5
4 yards -10
8 yards -15
16 yards -20


Essence Arrow Attack
Hard
Default: Prerequisite-2; cannot exceed prerequisite.

The will of the Solar shall not be denied by the frailties of his tools. Using this technique allows the Solar to use the statistics of his internal bow instead of his physical bow.


Lambent Bolt of Annihilation
Hard
Default: Prerequisite-5; cannot exceed prerequisite.

The arrow explodes upon impact in a golden flare. Anything near the darget receives "collateral damage" equal to basic damage divided by (3 x the distance in yards from the blast) (any Armor Divisor does not count for this). Increasing the penalty to -10 decreases the divisor to (2 x the distance in yards from the blast), and increasing the penalty to -15 decreases the divisor to the distance in yards from the blast. These penalties may be bought off as well.

Radius Penalty
2 yards -5
4 yards -10
8 yards -15
16 yards -20


Phantom Arrow Technique
Hard
Default: Prerequisite-2; cannot exceed prerequisite.

Lack of arrows will not deter a Solar archer. This technique will allow a Solar to shoot an arrow made out of pure Essence with otherwise normal statistics, avoiding the need for ammunition and reloading.


Rain of Feathered Death
Hard
Default: Prerequisite-4; cannot exceed prerequisite.

The arrow duplicates in flight, giving the bow a RoF of 2. For a greater penalty, a higher RoF may be gained. As usual, a Solar may buy off up to -20 worth of penalties from this technique.

RoF Penalty
2 -4
3 -5
4-7 -7
8-15 -10
16-30 -15
31-70 -20
71-150 -25
151-300 -30


There Is No Wind
Hard
Default: Prerequisite-10; cannot exceed prerequisite.

You order the Little God of your arrow to seek the target on its own. The arrow gains the Homing quality (see GURPS Basic Set, p.106), using a Para-Radar (see GURPS Basic Set, p. 61) with an increased range of 1000 yards.

[Jürgen Hubert]

Oh, and obviously weapon enhancing charms would work similarly for the other types of weapons...

[Balthial]

The thing is, in main stream Exalted if you want to power up your character you basically must buy charms and combos, meaning you will always have to deal with visible anima banners sooner or later. In GURPS, it will be tempting to "game" the system with a mix of charms and regular advantages so as to avoid ever having to show your banner.

I would say FP can ONLY be bought as part of the Periphereal Essence pool - so a Solar will have their 12 or 14 FP normally and then the periphereal pool. I would put that pool in as part of the template.

[Jürgen Hubert]

Originally Posted by Balthial

The thing is, in main stream Exalted if you want to power up your character you basically must buy charms and combos, meaning you will always have to deal with visible anima banners sooner or later. In GURPS, it will be tempting to "game" the system with a mix of charms and regular advantages so as to avoid ever having to show your banner.

I think regular advantages ultimately won't be enough to be really competitive in Exalted-level combat, as long as you enforce that characters are limited to purely mundane advantages apart from the charms. I mean, Combat Reflexes are useful in any fight, but they are an addition to combat charms, and hardly a replacement.

Ore more to the point, what kind of mundane advantage would hold a candle to Glorious Solar Bow, as described above?