Psychic Signatures

[JCurwen3]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

These both sound right. The appropriate Detect at short range is already reasonably likely to notice a normal signature, so (IMO) a more easily noticed one would have to be pretty obvious to rise to the level of a minor Nuisance Effect. I'm having trouble envisioning an effect based solely on noticeability that would justify more than a -5% NE... maybe in a game where detection (using Signature Sniffer and Psi Sense) is a major theme :?

You're right - at short range. But see my post above. At 100 yards, there's a -10 penalty to standard unmodified Detect. The more levels of what I call High Psychic Signature you have on your ability, the easier it will be to detect at long range. I would think that any game where Psi Sense and Signature Sniffer are significant as psychic residue senses would justify taking -5% for each +2 to detect. Imagine the equivalent for ordinary mundane signatures - at higher signatures, things like huge flashing lights, storm clouds, thunder claps, etc. The higher the signature, the easier it will be to notice from farther away.

[PK]

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

Obviously it's easy to just make your own: -5% for every +2 to detect. Still curious why it wasn't ever included anywhere.

Because Nuisance Effect is an existing limitation, and that's really what this is. Now, realize that such a limitation would not be worth -5% per +2! It's a mistake to assume that everything in GURPS mirrors on both sides of the line. For starters, a Nuisance Effect which makes your power nearly impossible to hide is only supposed to be a -5% limitation! So I'd say that +10 to your psychic signature is worth -5% and +20 is -10%. I wouldn't allow any further levels, because there's no way this should be more limiting than Visible.

[JCurwen3]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

Because Nuisance Effect is an existing limitation, and that's really what this is. Now, realize that such a limitation would not be worth -5% per +2! It's a mistake to assume that everything in GURPS mirrors on both sides of the line. For starters, a Nuisance Effect which makes your power nearly impossible to hide is only supposed to be a -5% limitation! So I'd say that +10 to your psychic signature is worth -5% and +20 is -10%. I wouldn't allow any further levels, because there's no way this should be more limiting than Visible.

I agree that it shouldn't be more limiting than Visible... if you could reasonably compare their effects. Visible's description is "a manifestation that makes it plainly obvious to everyone nearby" (emphasis mine). Range penalties to Sense rolls would apply to that. Rightfully, Visible should have levels too, to make it more "obvious" to people from farther away (adding bonuses to their Sense rolls to reduce long range penalties).

If you believe I'm wildly overestimating the problems and limitations that being more easily noticed from farther away would bring, please let me know, because it's entirely possible I'm just missing something. But to my mind there was a good reason that the rules give a -10 penalty at 100 yards (-16 at 1000) to Sense rolls (and it's not just about realism). Having your powers produce such strong signatures that they are noticed without penalty from 100 yards away seems worth -25%, and from a whopping 1000 yards at no penalty seems worth -40%. Not only does it definitively guarantee that people at ground zero won't really stand a chance of missing it, but people from all around will notice too.

If I was a psi with a power that gave a bonus to detection of +10 or +16 (or even lower bonuses), I doubt I'd use my power much (and I think my choice to limit my usage would scale with the magnitude of my signature), especially if I was in a world where psi activity is actively sniffed for and the psis hunted.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

Because Nuisance Effect is an existing limitation, and that's really what this is. Now, realize that such a limitation would not be worth -5% per +2! It's a mistake to assume that everything in GURPS mirrors on both sides of the line. For starters, a Nuisance Effect which makes your power nearly impossible to hide is only supposed to be a -5% limitation! So I'd say that +10 to your psychic signature is worth -5% and +20 is -10%. I wouldn't allow any further levels, because there's no way this should be more limiting than Visible.

I was going to use the word "blatant", but changed it to "pretty obvious" to avoid off-putting connotations... your suggested levels make me think I should have just left it in :) Yeah... the fact that your particular ability is easier to spot than others doesn't amount to much when you think of Visible. Being detectable from further away isn't going to be as much of a problem if you have the distance as a buffer.

[JCurwen3]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

Being detectable from further away isn't going to be as much of a problem if you have the distance as a buffer.

That makes assumptions about how big a factor distance really is. In real life, it's a big one. In a world with psionics, maybe not so much. People can have abilities that can work across vast distances (to affect or stop you from a distance), or they can Warp or have super-speed capabilities (to physically get there fast), remote senses (to see who caused the ruckus so they can come get you later, after they undo what you did when you're gone potentially).

A power that makes a flash of light is Visible and a big nuisance. A power that manifests as a several yard wide swirling vortex is harsh. A power that makes the noise of a gunshot is awful. A power that manifests with the effect of equivalent to noticeability of a bolt of lightning combined with a thunder clap heard for miles around is just terrible. Degrees, each one more limiting than the last, and IMO, with the limiting effects scaling with the magnitude of the signature based on how far out it can be detected.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

A power that makes a flash of light is Visible and a big nuisance. A power that manifests as a several yard wide swirling vortex is harsh. A power that makes the noise of a gunshot is awful.

Considering that making a rocket-powered-woosh noise combined with a big jet of light-emitting fire is only worth -5%, I think all three of these are still the basic Nuisance effect - and that flash of light isn't "turned on a flashlight" but more like "700 watt photographers flashbulb of augh I can't see my eyes oh my precious eyes" [1]


[1] Why yes, I've had my husband completely blow away my night vision with an overpowered studio flash once, why do you ask?

[JCurwen3]

Originally Posted by Bruno

Considering that making a rocket-powered-woosh noise combined with a big jet of light-emitting fire is only worth -5%, I think all three of these are still the basic Nuisance effect - and that flash of light isn't "turned on a flashlight" but more like "700 watt photographers flashbulb of augh I can't see my eyes oh my precious eyes" [1]

[1] Why yes, I've had my husband completely blow away my night vision with an overpowered studio flash once, why do you ask?

A 700 watt photographer's flashbulb is not a bolt of lightning (especially if it comes with the thunder clap too), or those big search lights like the one they use to call Batman (from potentially miles away). Those other things are more disadvantageous, more limiting. A flash that is blinding from 2 yards away will barely be a twinkle and won't register to anyone 100 yards away except on a really clear moonless night with no street lights.

Oh, and sorry about your night vision. :-)

[Celti]

The ability to generate a bolt of lightning is a power in its own right. If it's going to be that blatantly obvious at a distance, up close it's going to be devastating to anyone nearby, and therefore costs points — it's not a limitation.

[JCurwen3]

Originally Posted by Celti

The ability to generate a bolt of lightning is a power in its own right. If it's going to be that blatantly obvious at a distance, up close it's going to be devastating to anyone nearby, and therefore costs points — it's not a limitation.

I'm not talking about a real bolt of lighting. It won't cause damage, not even blinding. I'm talking about something (with the noticeability of a lightning bolt complete with thunder) that will be noticed for miles around. If your ability had a really high signature, such that it gave a +18 bonus to be noticed, then people 100 yards away (who suffer a -10 penalty to Sense rolls) will be rolling at +8, and people 5 miles away will be rolling at only -4 (compared to the -22 penalty that basically makes it impossible normally). To me that's worth -45% (-5% per +2 to detect), because everyone who can notice will notice for miles around, and can then act against you or against what you've just done with your power. The number of people that can notice will be growing I think geometrically as the "range" of the signature increases (the bonus to others' Sense rolls increases).

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

To me that's worth -45% (-5% per +2 to detect), because everyone who can notice will notice for miles around, and can then act against you or against what you've just done with your power.

It's not because once your ability becomes that loud it doesn't really matter if the bonus is +10 or +20; either way you aren't going to use it unless you don't care if you are detected or not.