Psychic Signatures

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by lexington

There's no such thing as ordinary "High Signature" for non psychic powers either. I think that's meant to be covered by "Nuisance Effect: Obvious" -5%.

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

There is, actually. Once you are pretty sure to be detected by a typical psychic there's no further disadvantage.

These both sound right. The appropriate Detect at short range is already reasonably likely to notice a normal signature, so (IMO) a more easily noticed one would have to be pretty obvious to rise to the level of a minor Nuisance Effect. I'm having trouble envisioning an effect based solely on noticeability that would justify more than a -5% NE... maybe in a game where detection (using Signature Sniffer and Psi Sense) is a major theme :?

[JCurwen3]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

These both sound right. The appropriate Detect at short range is already reasonably likely to notice a normal signature, so (IMO) a more easily noticed one would have to be pretty obvious to rise to the level of a minor Nuisance Effect. I'm having trouble envisioning an effect based solely on noticeability that would justify more than a -5% NE... maybe in a game where detection (using Signature Sniffer and Psi Sense) is a major theme :?

You're right - at short range. But see my post above. At 100 yards, there's a -10 penalty to standard unmodified Detect. The more levels of what I call High Psychic Signature you have on your ability, the easier it will be to detect at long range. I would think that any game where Psi Sense and Signature Sniffer are significant as psychic residue senses would justify taking -5% for each +2 to detect. Imagine the equivalent for ordinary mundane signatures - at higher signatures, things like huge flashing lights, storm clouds, thunder claps, etc. The higher the signature, the easier it will be to notice from farther away.

[Michael Hopcroft]

It occurs to me that magical powers might also have signatures. Those attuned to magical signatures might, for example, find that a place "reeks of demon" based on its magical signature. If an individual mage becomes well-known enough his own magical signature may be recognizable so that attuned people know whether he cast that spell or whether he has cast a spell in the vacinity.

Of course, most mages are not well-known enough that just anybody attuned to magic can recognize their auras. It would usually require acute personal experience with that mage, as an ally or an enemy. (Demons are a different story -- you could usually tell there were demons around without having to know what specific demon it is).

[JCurwen3]

Originally Posted by Michael Hopcroft

It occurs to me that magical powers might also have signatures. Those attuned to magical signatures might, for example, find that a place "reeks of demon" based on its magical signature. If an individual mage becomes well-known enough his own magical signature may be recognizable so that attuned people know whether he cast that spell or whether he has cast a spell in the vacinity.

Of course, most mages are not well-known enough that just anybody attuned to magic can recognize their auras. It would usually require acute personal experience with that mage, as an ally or an enemy. (Demons are a different story -- you could usually tell there were demons around without having to know what specific demon it is).

From my reading of the Low or No Signature section on p. P103, I've always assumed that each kind of power source leaves "psychic signatures", traces that can be detected via a sense like Detect Signatures of This Source (or abilities like that). I certainly agree magic (it's specifically mentioned) will do that, but I think any power source that doesn't have No Psychic Signature: Undetectable +25% built into it will leave traces behind. I know using the word "psychic" feels more for psis, but really I think it's a generic enough term (and it is the official term as per Psionic Powers, p. 20) - after all, it's not "psionic signature". In any event, I agree with you and I think for mages having high psychic signature magic would be just as bad, if not much worse, as it is for psis.

You could always put levels of either to increase or decrease the signature of Magery so all your spells leave less of a trace behind.

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

You could always put levels of either to increase or decrease the signature of Magery so all your spells leave less of a trace behind.

While I'm generally leery of attaching modifiers to Magery that affect the properties of spells (rather than access to spells or casting method) in this case I like it.

The only other way I can think of to do this would be using the rules to add Enhancements to spells (Thaum p39). Hence, attaching No Psychic (or Magical) Signature to a spell would penalize the casting by -5. That seems kinda steep... but maybe it's appropriate.

[JCurwen3]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

While I'm generally leery of attaching modifiers to Magery that affect the properties of spells (rather than access to spells or casting method) in this case I like it.

The only other way I can think of to do this would be using the rules to add Enhancements to spells (Thaum p39). Hence, attaching No Psychic (or Magical) Signature to a spell would penalize the casting by -5. That seems kinda steep... but maybe it's appropriate.

Huh - I hadn't seen that rule in Thaum, thanks. It certainly is less of a blunt force instrument than adding it onto Magery.

Is there an official stance on adding general modifiers to Magery to affect the properties of spells? I can definitely see the need to be leery - and certainly nothing grossly abusive like "Reduced Time" or "Extended Duration" should be applied, I should think.

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

Is there an official stance on adding general modifiers to Magery to affect the properties of spells? I can definitely see the need to be leery - and certainly nothing grossly abusive like "Reduced Time" or "Extended Duration" should be applied, I should think.

In general, such modifiers are forbidden, just as you can't add Armor Divisor to Striking ST or Weapon Master and have it apply to melee attacks. This was one of the key motivations of Imbuements, giving PCs the ability to add enhancements to traits not actually represented by powers. I think it's best to consider Magery to be an enabling trait like WM or TbaM, giving you access to cinematic skills, rather than being a power in its own right.

[JCurwen3]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

In general, such modifiers are forbidden, just as you can't add Armor Divisor to Striking ST or Weapon Master and have it apply to melee attacks. This was one of the key motivations of Imbuements, giving PCs the ability to add enhancements to traits not actually represented by powers. I think it's best to consider Magery to be an enabling trait like WM or TbaM, giving you access to cinematic skills, rather than being a power in its own right.

Makes sense.