Dungeon Fantasy needs a bare-bones setting

[tg_ambro]

Originally Posted by b-dog

I think DF 12 Ninjas highlights the need for a DF setting. All of the templates are Eurocentric and the races are as well excluding the beastmen which could be from anywhere. But ninjas are sort of the odball and it would be nice to have some sort of setting to fit them in and integratethem with maybe some other Asian style templates and races to use.

I disagree. I would say most of the templates are eurocentric (as the genre generally is) but there are notes for turning the knight into a samurai, a barbarian into Tarzan, and I never really imagined the Martial Artist looking like a Franciscan monk. In other words, the Ninja isn't the first to make me wonder how I'd fit them into a world.

The way I see it as a GM is, if I have a party that consists of a viking-styled Barbarian, a sun god (Ra) worshipping Cleric, an Oniwabanshu clan Ninja, and a Wizard who wants to be lich. Then as a GM I'll be sure to make a world I know has at least a Frozen North, an Egyptian flavored Southern Realm, A Fobidden East, and Liches. As the game progresses, I'll add more stuff, like Oniwabanshu Ninja Branches, Old crumbling temples of Ra, and ancient evil Lich enemies to steal knowledge from.

I think DF already kind of has a "genre-setting" in that some things are so common to the genre (Frozen North, Forbidden East, etc.) that it comes with a prepackaged lite setting.

[simply Nathan]

Originally Posted by tg_ambro

Well, it can act as an unusual background for a character in some settings, allowing a PC to have traits that aren't normal to have anymore. "Say, if all the mages were killed in the great Mage War, and the gods prohibited new ones, how come you can cast spells, eh bob?" Bob replies "I was born before all that, waaay before all that."

"Wait, doesn't that make you a mage? In that case, you were killed off in the great war."

Really, I cannot see a justification for Unaging to be an Unusual Background; if being that old really does confer any sort of benefit, by all means allow an Unusual Background. I will stipulate, however, that it does not in the vast majority of possible games.

[csm]

I think we all need to step back and realize that it's all just a game, and the object of a game is to have fun. Anything that isn't fun is called work, and unless you're getting paid for work, you're probably better off not doing it. :)

If your players will have fun trying to talk to NPCs or each other without understanding the language, then fine, run with it. Conversely, you could create a fantasy setting the likes of which would make even JRR Tolkein blush with inadequacy, but if your players are busily ransacking the place for treasure and experience points ("how many XP for the potato farmer?") then your hard work will be lost on your players, and the fun is lost.

How does this relate to GURPS? Every player or GM has a different idea of what Dungeon Fantasy is, and how it should be played. Some want hidden lore and mysteries that span generations. They want rich tapestries of story telling, and want to explore every facet of the GM's wild imaginations. For those players, a simple setting of "This is Gonzola, which is ruled by a king that needs your help rescuing his daughter" isn't going to cut it. On the other hand, players who want nothing more than to see how many bodies they can rack up before they themselves get killed couldn't care less about hidden lore, tapestries, or the name of the princess they're trying to rescue. For them, a simple direction from the throne room and access to the proverbial monster shredder would suffice.

In both of these scenarios, both groups could still have fun with Dungeon Fantasy as is without even taxing SJGames to write up a setting. I'm not sure the added effort would be rewarded in kind by having a setting to go with DF, nor do I want them to make a setting. Banestorm could be considered such a setting, and it would hardly stand as your standard "kill the baddies, get the loot, save the entire planet" fare of Dungeon Fantasy.

It should be up to the GM to provide as little or as much setting as needed, and season to taste. GURPS is a great broth, and DF is an excellent guide for what to put in there to season your own minestrone. But getting two groups to agree what goes into that minestrone would be difficult, if not impossible.

[demonsbane]

Originally Posted by b-dog

What people want (I think) is to be captivated with an interesting world. Rules are a small part of RPGs, the most important part of RPGs is to have an inspiring game world.

Which people? Certainly I'm not between such people...

[simply Nathan]

Originally Posted by csm

Conversely, you could create a fantasy setting the likes of which would make even JRR Tolkein blush with inadequacy,

I don't know if you've just phrased this strangely, but the context of this fragment seems to imply that Tolkien didn't put a lot of work into fleshing out his setting and languages (which he did; the setting was basically an excuse to give the languages he made up a place to live).

Banestorm could be considered such a setting, and it would hardly stand as your standard "kill the baddies, get the loot, save the entire planet" fare of Dungeon Fantasy.

Not out of the box, but I could certainly fix that part. Doesn't take much effort; just throw out all the boring politics stuff and throw in more orcs and dark elves. Also, Cleric -> Wizard with priestly background, Druid -> Wizard with nature theme; the setting has what amounts to a one phlebotinum limit, and I love that.

[KevinJ]

Originally Posted by csm

Banestorm could be considered such a setting, and it would hardly stand as your standard "kill the baddies, get the loot, save the entire planet" fare of Dungeon Fantasy.

I wouldn't use Banestorm without being paid a lot of money. It's like saying Yrth should be the default setting. Lame. However, a GURPS lite version of world creation rules in Fantasy wouldn't be a bad deal. Just tack it on at the end of the next DF product.

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by KevinJ

I wouldn't use Banestorm without being paid a lot of money. It's like saying Yrth should be the default setting. Lame. However, a GURPS lite version of world creation rules in Fantasy wouldn't be a bad deal. Just tack it on at the end of the next DF product.

Why could we not simply use GURPS Fantasy? Must a book have "Dungeon Fantasy" stamped on the front before we use it in a DF game? I mean, far be it from me to suggest that SJGames not simply regurgitate already existing material, change the title and art, sprinkle the words "Dungeon Fantasy" through the text, and then sell the same product again, but I don't really understand what the point would be.

We have the rules for a dungeon fantasy world. We know what the races look like, the monsters, and how one goes about extracting loot from said monsters. All setting really layers atop this is context, and that context needn't really be different from anything else GURPS Fantasy will give you: It could be a terribly serious medieval world on the brink of collapse, or it could be a jolly ol' parody of dungeon fantasy sensibilities, or anything in between. GURPS Fantasy will provide all of that. So why do we need a different product?

[tg_ambro]

Originally Posted by Kenneth Latrans

I don't know if you've just phrased this strangely, but the context of this fragment seems to imply that Tolkien didn't put a lot of work into fleshing out his setting and languages (which he did; the setting was basically an excuse to give the languages he made up a place to live).

No, he didn't phrase it all that strangly. He's saying that you could go overboard and completely overbuild a world, in this case, with languages to the point where a true master linguist, Tolkien, would feel he did a poor job on his own world.

[demonsbane]

Originally Posted by KevinJ

I wouldn't use Banestorm without being paid a lot of money. (. . .)

You stole the words out of my keyboard.

Originally Posted by Mailanka

Why could we not simply use GURPS Fantasy? Must a book have "Dungeon Fantasy" stamped on the front before we use it in a DF game? I mean, far be it from me to suggest that SJGames not simply regurgitate already existing material, change the title and art, sprinkle the words "Dungeon Fantasy" through the text, and then sell the same product again, but I don't really understand what the point would be.

We have the rules for a dungeon fantasy world. We know what the races look like, the monsters, and how one goes about extracting loot from said monsters. All setting really layers atop this is context, and that context needn't really be different from anything else GURPS Fantasy will give you: It could be a terribly serious medieval world on the brink of collapse, or it could be a jolly ol' parody of dungeon fantasy sensibilities, or anything in between. GURPS Fantasy will provide all of that. So why do we need a different product?

Very well said!

[Rob Crawford]

A question about the DF 12 Ninja (I don't have that book, because I don't care for the whole "ninja mystique") -- would the assassins from the "Assassins's Creed" qualify as "ninja" according to the book's criteria?

Seems like an interesting take on the "class", if so.