Dungeon Fantasy needs a bare-bones setting

[Tyneras]

I would go for worked dungeons and encounters, but I don't think that a specific setting designed for DF would be a good idea. That would just constrain the creativity of both the setting and future DF books. If you have a setting, just make notes for how this or that would work if you play DF using that setting, or retrofit it with a supplement like DF: Banestorm or DF: Madlands.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by Greg 1

I would not like to see DF tied to any particular setting.

I would be interested in a setting built to support DF.

Is there any particular reason that DF and a setting need be built for each other? Sure, I bet SJG could do a DF setting that would be awesome, but is there anything about a setting that makes it distinctly DF? Provided it doesn't conflict with the assumptions of DF, just about any classic fantasy setting can just be ported in with very little in the way of conversion. If there are some minor conflicts, they can probably be resolved (there are no druids in this setting, that setting has swashbucklers even though they were never mentioned in the source material).

DF presents, as has been said earlier, a style of play. It can be applied to almost any setting with very little effort.

I think the request should be presented as "GURPS needs a 'mass market' style fantasy setting" which would almost certainly have at least a text box for using it in with DF. I would imagine that it has been considered, and the concern is one of market saturation.

[Greg 1]

Originally Posted by RyanW

Is there any particular reason that DF and a setting need be built for each other?

Need? No. There may be some advantages to building a setting specifically for DF though.

Sure, I bet SJG could do a DF setting that would be awesome, but is there anything about a setting that makes it distinctly DF?

I think so. A setting is distinctly DF if it accomodates the races, classes and magic from DF, as well as the fact that there are great numbers of monsters living in holes in the ground.

Provided it doesn't conflict with the assumptions of DF, just about any classic fantasy setting can just be ported in with very little in the way of conversion.

It depends on what you want from the setting. If, for instance, you don't care about roleplay (a perfectly good play style for DF) it really doesn't matter that much how your PC fits into the world or how the world itself fits together.

I think the request should be presented as "GURPS needs a 'mass market' style fantasy setting" which would almost certainly have at least a text box for using it in with DF. I would imagine that it has been considered, and the concern is one of market saturation.

I couldn't tell you what the market wants or what SJG should do with GURPS from a business point of view. I can say that speaking personally, I would be interested in a world built to support the races, classes and dungeon-memes of dungeon fantasy.

I get the impression from this thread that I'm in a minority, however!

[ULFGARD]

Originally Posted by Greg 1

I think so. A setting is distinctly DF if it accomodates the races, classes and magic from DF, as well as the fact that there are great numbers of monsters living in holes in the ground.

I still say this would make a great Pyramid article or set of articles. Tools for quick and dirty DF campaign building. A setting for it. Or, perhaps less ambitiously, a locale that would provide for good DF adventures in the neighborhood (one that included a background, though one vague enough to be grafted onto other worlds -- a few such, if stitched together, might provide a good "sandbox" world).

[sir_pudding]

Note that all DF characters are expected to speak a "common" language, regardless of the character's origin. Most Templates don't even offer the option of speaking more than one language. I brought this up a while ago.

[Mysterious Dark Lord v3.2]

I've read the whole thread, and I fail to see the difficulty.

From what I understand, the Dungeon Fantasy line is not intended for long-term adventuring, but to live out the old dungeon-delving days. And for me that means back in the day, when all we had was D&D basic and we peered in curiosity at this new-fangled "Advanced" version.

I have this huge-normous stack of Basic D&D adventure modules, some of them turning yellow from age, a couple with 30-year-old soda-pop stains on them. I've managed (with ridiculous ease) to just grab one, convert to GURPS 4e on the fly, and get a usable and playable result.

The setting exists. The 1st edition D&D stuff is available online and to the best of my knowledge not owned by anyone. So I fail to see any difficulty.

[nondescript handle]

Originally Posted by RyanW

Is there any particular reason that DF and a setting need be built for each other? [...]

I don't think DF needs an example/default setting/sandbox to be complete, but I think it would benefit from it.

My reason is this: the way I play DF is as an unabashed kill-monsters-and-take-their-stuff hack-and-slash game of old. It is used for stand-alone sessions where quickly build one-session characters try to win glory and gold in one night.
I will not hand craft a complete setting for that.

It is of course relatively easy to adapt most fantasy settings for DF, but even that means some prep work for the GM, and of course SJG can not publish support for (or even use as an example) e.g. Mystara.

It is also possible to go without a setting altogether. My DF style is very episodic, continuity not valued, and the World Outside The Dungeon is sketchy at best. But still: sometimes the PCs will really interact (as opposed to kill, buy, sell, and pick pockets) with the world. You can of course simply ad lib it, but I would like the option not to.

So I can see the benefit of a DF title which will sketch a sandbox where the GM can place his random dungeons and other stuff in.
And this sandbox doesn't need to (or should) be complex, but it should offer stuff like lists of languages and gods, and one liners for basic orientation (e.g. "Barbarians come from the frozen wastes of Mumbulon from the far north.", "This area, the Flat Tail Marsh, is a frontier province of the Badger Kingdom. The present ruler is Queen Gnawtooth.").

It would help GMs to run DF "out of the box" in the same way DF templates help players to create characters out of the box.
And for the DF line it would act as the semi-generic example background (which is needed to a certain degree anyway, see e.g. the race descriptions in DF3) for descriptions, locations, and (hopefully) adventures.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

At the very least, Dungeon Fantasy needs a list of the languages within the setting, both living culture languages, special languages (Elemental Language, e.t.c.) and ancient languages. It's the kind of thing that some players will demand to be told about up front before they create their characters, and the kind of thing that an inexperienced GM will be unable to deliver.

I'm thinking the best solution would be a pseudo-European setting with a few major countries analogous to England, France, Germany, Spain and Italy, each with their own language, and a few common ancient languages (analogous to Latin, Greek and Arabic) and half a dozen obscure ancient languages (analogous to Egyptian, Babylonian, Sanskrit and so forth). Largely similar history as Europe, with an old empire that split into two parts, then collapsed due to barbarian invasions.

Goto e23 and buy The Alchemical Baroque. It covers all your stated needs. Sure it's psudeo-Enlightenment rather than psudeo-Medieval, but it's still psudeo-European.

[Phantasm]

The way I see it, anyone wanting an actual DF setting only has to strafe b-dog's multitude of DF threads here in the forums. He's done good work at building a setting, IMO; someone should collect the posts and put them into a Pyramid article.

(Ya hearin' me, b-dog?)

[Rob Crawford]

What people want (I think) is to be captivated with an interesting world. Rules are a small part of RPGs, the most important part of RPGs is to have an inspiring game world.

That's the GMs responsibility.

And, seriously, there are literally HUNDREDS of PDFs on e23 and RPGNow that will provide the material either to help you build a setting, or to provide you with one already made.