Knee Pads, Rocks Falls... Death and Questions

[natesroom]

I've been playing for 4 months and this is a first time ive seen this happen and couldnt really understand everything so if someone wants to give me a run down of the timing on this i would greatly appreciate it.

Player A - Male Level 9 - +22 (total)
Player B - Male Level 7 - +19 (total)
Player C - Female - N/A
Player D - Female - N/A

Player A - Looks for trouble Plays GM ex Girlfriend Lv4 +5 vs Males
a) Wins Battle
Player C - Plays Wandering Monster Plutonium Dragon lv20 for total of +29

Player A - Uses Baron Munckinhauser bringin total strength to +32
a) Wins Battle

Player C - Plays Mate on Dragon for total of +49

Player A - Uses Kneepads of Allure on Player B bringing attack strength to +51

Player B - Doesnt want the other guy to win the game since he is Lv9 so plays a +5 on the monsters side to make them a +54 (this is allowed correct?)

(BTW no other cards in play are able to affect the battle i.e Race or Class)

Player A and KOA Player B cannot win battle.... Who rolls first to attempt to run away? and which monster do you run away from first? Does the player choose whichever he wants first?

Player B went first failed to run away to both - He is flayed and dead - Do you resolve Death for him at that moment or the end of the other persons running away? Player A Then failed both and also dies... If Player B resolved his death before Player A can he select a card from player A's death?

Then after losing the Battle, Player A plays Rock Falls, everyone dies since he died. How is that resolved? Do all players Select an Item from each dead player?

Thanks for the Help!

[Sawmaniac]

First of all, Rocks Fall cannot be played AFTER losing a combat. You have to use it before running away,

Then, you should resolve death after attempt to run away, Therefore, in this case they would both grant their bodies to having been looted.

Third, if someone uses Kneepads of Allure, the one they were used on must join the combat, but he doesn't have to let the combatant win.

If everyone's dead then everyone must discard his items and his hand, because dead characters cannot receive cards for any reason.

[natesroom]

Originally Posted by Sawmaniac

First of all, Rocks Fall cannot be played AFTER losing a combat. You have to use it before running away,

You dont find out if die until you have the bad stuff happen to you after you fail to run away... are you saying i have to play the card immediately after i specify i cannot win the battle, before running away?

Secondly I understand the granting of cards thank you, Do you resolve a players death immediately after they fail to run away then hand out the cards to the survivors (so the other player who is still running away might be able to make use one of the prior dead persons card)

And then who Resolves bad stuff first and in which monster order?

[Sawmaniac]

are you saying i have to play the card immediately after i specify i cannot win the battle, before running away?

Exactly. The point of the card is to let the others suffer as well as you provided you suffer Bad Stuff but suffering Bad Stuff is immediate - you are not allowed to use some cards while you are suffering Bad Stuff.

If you were alone in the battle, there would be no questions. But since you had a helper who can either die or survive you should wait for his Run Away Roll.

Well, even if he did loot you while facing a monster he still had to Run Away and he would die provided he was unsuccessful,

So, I don't see anything unusual in it. But i think it's better to wait until all the combatants are not in combat.

[natesroom]

Awesome thanks for reading about it!... Those are just some really powerful cards!

[SmokeRulz]

Disclaimer: I'll try to help out as best as my knowledge will allow me. However, make sure you wait for either MunchkinMan or Andrew Hackard to reply to this post and confirm all the correct answers, as their word is the golden rule. Now, let's see what I can do...

Originally Posted by natesroom

Player B - Doesnt want the other guy to win the game since he is Lv9 so plays a +5 on the monsters side to make them a +54 (this is allowed correct?)

Yes, you can try to sabotage a combat that you are in. That's one of the ways to counter the Kneepads, although you put yourself in danger by doing so, obviously.

Originally Posted by natesroom

Player A and KOA Player B cannot win battle.... Who rolls first to attempt to run away? and which monster do you run away from first? Does the player choose whichever he wants first?

I'm not totally sure who rolls first to run away, but I'm not sure it matters. Both players are essentially running away at the same time, and the rolls decide which monsters catch the players, if any. It's possible for both players to be caught by all monsters, or only some of them, etc etc. Just for the sake of ease, let's say the person whose combat it is (the non-helper) rolls first.

And yes, you choose who you want to run away from first, and second, and so on. So strategy would suggest to run away from the most dangerous one first, because if that one kills you, then rolling for the other monsters is not done.

Originally Posted by natesroom

Player B went first failed to run away to both - He is flayed and dead - Do you resolve Death for him at that moment or the end of the other persons running away? Player A Then failed both and also dies... If Player B resolved his death before Player A can he select a card from player A's death?

I say: Resolve when both players are finished running away. In this case, Player B ran from the worst one first and died. So he no longer needs to run away from the others. Then Player A rolls against the same monster, and fails, so he is also dead. No more rolls are needed. Both players are dead, so now everyone gets to loot their bodies and what not... Well, unless the following happens:

Originally Posted by natesroom

Then after losing the Battle, Player A plays Rock Falls, everyone dies since he died. How is that resolved? Do all players Select an Item from each dead player?

No one is able to loot anything from anybody, because everybody died! Every player loses all of their cards except character-related stuff like Race & Class. Then finish whomever's turn it is, then proceed to the next player's turn. Everyone is alive again, and that player draws a new opening hand and plays his turn. Whenever it gets back to another player, they draw a new opening hand and get back to playing.

Originally Posted by natesroom

You dont find out if die until you have the bad stuff happen to you after you fail to run away... are you saying i have to play the card immediately after i specify i cannot win the battle, before running away?

One of the mods is going to have to confirm when "Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies" can truly be played, but yes, I believe Sawmaniac is correct that you need to play any relevant cards before you roll to Run Away. You can't win the combat, therefore you lose, and it's time to run away. The card is going to punish everybody whether you happen to die or not, so if you WANT everyone to die, then just hope you roll back. On the flipside, though, this does kind of not make sense, so we'll see what the mods have to say.

Originally Posted by natesroom

Do you resolve a players death immediately after they fail to run away then hand out the cards to the survivors (so the other player who is still running away might be able to make use one of the prior dead persons card)

Since they're both running away at the same time, I'd say you let all the rolls resolve before you start looting corpses. It doesn't make much sense to loot someone's corpse while another player is in the act of running away from that monster (and other monsters). So once all required run away rolls have been resolved, then body looting can start. So if Player A (in your example) wants to loot Player B's body, he has to hope not to die from his own rolls.

Originally Posted by natesroom

And then who Resolves bad stuff first and in which monster order?

You choose which monsters to run away from and in what order. If the first monster you run away from kills you, then you do not roll to run from the others. You're dead, they're out of luck. Otherwise, just do Bad Stuff in the order it affects you. If multiple players are involved, then just resolve the Bad Stuff of whomever did their Run Away rolls first.

[MunchkinMan]

Let me start out by saying that Sawmaniac is incorrect about the playing of Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies. It breaks the rules, allowing you to play it after you've died. You may play it before, or after your Run Away rolls. I have said this before on this forum, a search of "rocks fall" should find it pretty easily.

Rather than try to address the multiple original and follow up questions, I'm just going to explain a few things about running away and hope that clears up any questions that were asked. Please refer to anything that I missed if I didn't answer everything. Here goes:

So, you can't beat those evil Monsters, and maybe you even had help. It's time to Run Away. Each player runs away from each Monster individually. In other words: You don't roll once to see if you escape from all the Monsters, you pick a Monster and then roll to see if you get away from it. You repeat this until you have rolled against every Monster in the combat or you have died. Once you are dead, any remaining Monsters you have to flee lose interest (they're kinda like cats that way). You deal with each result immediately as it comes (the rules say that you "suffer Bad Stuff from each [Monster] that catches you as soon as it catches you."). Who rolls first when you have multiple players? It doesn't matter. You can roll separately, at the same time, you can even roll against the same Monster at the same time.

[Kirt]

Originally Posted by natesroom

Player A - Male Level 9 - +22 (total)
Player B - Male Level 7 - +19 (total)
Player C - Female - N/A

Player A - Looks for trouble Plays GM ex Girlfriend Lv4 +5 vs Males

Player C - Plays Wandering Monster Plutonium Dragon lv20 for total of +29

Player A - Uses Baron Munckinhauser bringin total strength to +32

Player C - Plays Mate on Dragon for total of +49

Player A - Uses Kneepads of Allure on Player B bringing attack strength to +51

Player A is level 9 and will get 3 levels for winning this combat, thus winning the game.

If playing with the NEW printing of KoA, KoA CANNOT be used to force another player into a combat that gives you the winning level. Player A's use of KoA is not legal.

[SmokeRulz]

Good catch, Kirt. I had completely forgotten that the card got changed in the current printing.

[Andrew Hackard]

Officially: a Dead character's body is looted immediately, before any further Running Away happens. So from that perspective, it matters who rolls first.

Also officially: There is no rule about who runs first. Each group may resolve that dispute in any manner legal in their jurisdiction. However, my unofficial stance is that if the combatants can't resolve the matter through negotiation and threats, they should roll the die, high roller running first.