Energy Reserve recharging

[JCurwen3]

I searched the forum and couldn't find an official answer to my question, so here it is. Energy Reserves and modifiers for both Regeneration and Leech that recharge them are found on p. P119, priced the same as the equivalent versions for FP. You take a Energy Reserve (ER) for each power source (e.g. Psi, Magic, etc.).

So let's say I have multiple ER, maybe ER (Psi) and ER (Magic). Further, say I have Regeneration (Slow) and I want to add ER Recovery (alternatively I have Leech and I want to add Heals ER) to recharge both ER and HP and everything else Regeneration does as normal.

Do I take just one added ER Recovery to Regeneration (Slow), like so (option #1):

Regeneration (Slow; ER Recovery, +100%) [20]

which regenerates both ER (no, I don't believe that's how it works, but just putting it out there), for a total 20 points?

Or do I do this (option #2):

Regeneration (Slow; ER Recovery, Psi, +100%; ER Recovery, Magic, +100%) [30]

, for a total 30 points?

Or do I have to buy a separate Regeneration for each ER, each modified by a power source, in which case I take ER Only instead, like this (option #3):

Regeneration (Slow) [10]
Regeneration (Slow; Psi, -10%; ER Only, -0%) [9]
Regeneration (Slow; Magic, -10%; (ER Only, -0%) [9]

, for a total 28 points?

Note in the above examples I'm using Regeneration (Slow) as a wild advantage where applicable. I didn't read anything that suggested in the ER description that wild Regeneration couldn't regenerate ER. There is something about skills connected to the same power source recharging an ER of that source, but that's it, and that mostly refers to the Recover Energy spell. Also, I did note that the last two options I presented have a very similar point cost: 30 CP vs 28 CP.

My personal thought is that option #2 (above) is the right way to do it, and option #3 just feels wrong. In a campaign where power sources can interact (but not negate each other), for instance, option #3 would disallow this:

Regeneration (Slow; Magic, -10%; ER Recovery, Psi, +100%) [19]

and that seems valid and rules-legal to me (no reason why power sources can't interact, or why mages wouldn't study how to manipulate psionic energies and vice versa, or for that matter custom-made power sources).

Thoughts? Just want a RAW, official or semi-official ruling, maybe a page reference from a book or a citation from Kromm or RPK, something like that.

[Jerander]

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

...(option #2):

Regeneration (Slow; ER Recovery, Psi, +100%; ER Recovery, Magic, +100%) [30]

...
...(option #3):

Regeneration (Slow) [10]
Regeneration (Slow; Psi, -10%; ER Only, -0%) [9]
Regeneration (Slow; Magic, -10%; ER Only, -0%) [9]

...

Assuming in Option #3 that "Psi" and "Magic" refer to the Power Modifiers "Psionic" and "Magical," then I believe either one of these (Options #2 & #3) is correct. Though in Option #3 you'll have to specify which ER is being recharged in each instance of Regeneration:

Regeneration (Slow) [10]
Regeneration (Slow; PM: Psionic, -10%; ER (Psi) Only, -0%) [9]
Regeneration (Slow; PM: Magical, -10%; ER (Magic) Only, -0%) [9]

vs:

Regeneration (Slow) [10]
Regeneration (Slow; PM: Psionic, -10%; ER (Magic) Only, -0%) [9]
Regeneration (Slow; PM: Magical, -10%; ER (Psionic) Only, -0%) [9]

Vs. two other possible combinations.

[JCurwen3]

Originally Posted by Jerander

Assuming in Option #3 that "Psi" and "Magic" refer to the Power Modifiers "Psionic" and "Magical," then I believe either one of these (Options #2 & #3) is correct. Though in Option #3 you'll have to specify which ER is being recharged in each instance of Regeneration:

Regeneration (Slow) [10]
Regeneration (Slow; PM: Psionic, -10%; ER (Psi) Only, -0%) [9]
Regeneration (Slow; PM: Magical, -10%; ER (Magic) Only, -0%) [9]

vs:

Regeneration (Slow) [10]
Regeneration (Slow; PM: Psionic, -10%; ER (Magic) Only, -0%) [9]
Regeneration (Slow; PM: Magical, -10%; ER (Psionic) Only, -0%) [9]

Vs. two other possible combinations.

Thanks, yes, I thought that might be the case - that you'd have to specify the ER (by power source) being recharged regardless of the power modifier on the Regeneration (since there's nothing stopping a Magic-based Regeneration from recharging Psionic ER).

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

Thanks, yes, I thought that might be the case - that you'd have to specify the ER (by power source) being recharged regardless of the power modifier on the Regeneration (since there's nothing stopping a Magic-based Regeneration from recharging Psionic ER).

Correct! If it's not specified, the assumption is that the power sources match (as the most common case, this is definitely the safest assumption to make).

What stops a magic-based regeneration from recharging Psionic ER is the GM saying "Magic and psi don't work like that in my game" of course ;) It's an important world design decision.

[munin]

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

... you'd have to specify the ER (by power source) being recharged regardless of the power modifier on the Regeneration (since there's nothing stopping a Magic-based Regeneration from recharging Psionic ER).

No, RAW, ER can only be recharged by abilities of the same source:

"Abilities of that source can also help ... Regeneration can have “ER Recovery” or “ER Only” for the price of “Fatigue Recovery” or “Fatigue Only,” ... " (p. P119, emphasis original).

So your original option #3 was valid. You don't need to specify which ER is being recharged because it's implied by the power source.

You could also do a complicated Limited Enhancements (p. B111) build: Regeneration (Slow; ER Recovery, Magical (Magical, -10%), +90%; ER Recovery, Psionic (Psionic, -10%), +90%) [28], where the power modifiers mean the enhancements disappear under certain conditions. In a setting where you allow powers to affect each other you could switch the power modifiers around.

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

I searched the forum and couldn't find an official answer to my question, so here it is. Energy Reserves and modifiers for both Regeneration and Leech that recharge them are found on p. P119, priced the same as the equivalent versions for FP. You take a Energy Reserve (ER) for each power source (e.g. Psi, Magic, etc.).

So let's say I have multiple ER, maybe ER (Psi) and ER (Magic). Further, say I have Regeneration (Slow) and I want to add ER Recovery (alternatively I have Leech and I want to add Heals ER) to recharge both ER and HP and everything else Regeneration does as normal.

Do I take just one added ER Recovery to Regeneration (Slow), like so (option #1):

Regeneration (Slow; ER Recovery, +100%) [20]

which regenerates both ER (no, I don't believe that's how it works, but just putting it out there), for a total 20 points?

Or do I do this (option #2):

Regeneration (Slow; ER Recovery, Psi, +100%; ER Recovery, Magic, +100%) [30]

, for a total 30 points?

Or do I have to buy a separate Regeneration for each ER, each modified by a power source, in which case I take ER Only instead, like this (option #3):

Regeneration (Slow) [10]
Regeneration (Slow; Psi, -10%; ER Only, -0%) [9]
Regeneration (Slow; Magic, -10%; (ER Only, -0%) [9]

, for a total 28 points?

Note in the above examples I'm using Regeneration (Slow) as a wild advantage where applicable. I didn't read anything that suggested in the ER description that wild Regeneration couldn't regenerate ER. There is something about skills connected to the same power source recharging an ER of that source, but that's it, and that mostly refers to the Recover Energy spell. Also, I did note that the last two options I presented have a very similar point cost: 30 CP vs 28 CP.

My personal thought is that option #2 (above) is the right way to do it, and option #3 just feels wrong. In a campaign where power sources can interact (but not negate each other), for instance, option #3 would disallow this:

Regeneration (Slow; Magic, -10%; ER Recovery, Psi, +100%) [19]

and that seems valid and rules-legal to me (no reason why power sources can't interact, or why mages wouldn't study how to manipulate psionic energies and vice versa, or for that matter custom-made power sources).

Thoughts? Just want a RAW, official or semi-official ruling, maybe a page reference from a book or a citation from Kromm or RPK, something like that.

Why would you ever waste the points on Slow Regeneration for ER (or FP), considering that it recovers at 1/10 minutes anyway, a lot faster than either Slow or Regular Regeneration? You need to take at least Fast for there to be any point.

That said, I'd say that you need the enhancement for each additional pool of whatever (apart from Ablative DR if you're regenerating HP already) you want the Regeneration to apply to, which I guess is your option #2.

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by munin

No, RAW, ER can only be recharged by abilities of the same source:

"Abilities of that source can also help ... Regeneration can have “ER Recovery” or “ER Only” for the price of “Fatigue Recovery” or “Fatigue Only,” ... " (p. P119, emphasis original).

So your original option #3 was valid. You don't need to specify which ER is being recharged because it's implied by the power source.

You could also do a complicated Limited Enhancements (p. B111) build: Regeneration (Slow; ER Recovery, Magical (Magical, -10%), +90%; ER Recovery, Psionic (Psionic, -10%), +90%) [28], where the power modifiers mean the enhancements disappear under certain conditions. In a setting where you allow powers to affect each other you could switch the power modifiers around.

Oops, you're right - a separate Regeneration for each type of Energy Reserve it is. Option #3. Although one of those ER recharges could be attached to Regeneration for HP, bodily FP, etc., all with the same power modifier.

Fortunately, that works out almost the same as Option #2, since each ER enhancement would be +100%, therefore about equivalent to just buying the advantage over again, anyway.

There's still no point taking anything less than Fast, though.

[JCurwen3]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

Why would you ever waste the points on Slow Regeneration for ER (or FP), considering that it recovers at 1/10 minutes anyway, a lot faster than either Slow or Regular Regeneration? You need to take at least Fast for there to be any point.

That said, I'd say that you need the enhancement for each additional pool of whatever (apart from Ablative DR if you're regenerating HP already) you want the Regeneration to apply to, which I guess is your option #2.

HA! Yes, I know, I really was just trying to make an example for the sake of illustrating the question complete with point value comparison, and I just landed on Slow. Of course you're right, unless it was Fast or better, the Regeneration wouldn't really be very useful for ER or FP.

[Kale]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

Why would you ever waste the points on Slow Regeneration for ER (or FP), considering that it recovers at 1/10 minutes anyway, a lot faster than either Slow or Regular Regeneration? You need to take at least Fast for there to be any point.

I agree. I don't understand how Regeneration works with Energy Reserve. Can somebody enlighten me?

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by Kale

I agree. I don't understand how Regeneration works with Energy Reserve. Can somebody enlighten me?

Regeneration recharges at the rate for the level of Regeneration you took. Since ER already recharges at 1 energy per 10 minutes (and sometimes a little faster, say, if it's Magical and you have the Recover Energy spell), there's no point taking less than Fast Regeneration at 1 energy per minute, and for it to help you in the course of a single combat encounter, you probably want Instant or even Extreme.