Infinite use of "usable once only " - Second Chance Sparkles

[smoothhands]

What I don't get about your logic Palmer is why you only use Second Chance Sparkles twice when you've played three one-shot items. You use it for the one-shot item and for the Loaded Die, but not for the Fairy Fortune; instead you only used Fairy Fortune’s inherent self-recovery ability. I think that's where your loop breaking is flawed. The Second Chance Sparkles text states that it is used every time you play a one-shot item. Thus the following scenario should be perfectly valid:

Setup: one-shot item, 2 Loaded Die (LD #1 and LD #2), Second Chance Sparkles (SCS)

1. Use one-shot item, which is then discarded.
2. Try SCS to recover one-shot item: roll 5.
3. Use LD #1 to change roll to 6. One-shot item is recovered; SCS for one-shot item resolved. LD #1 is discarded.
4. Try SCS to recover LD #1: roll 5.
5. Use LD #2 to change roll to 6. LD #1 is recovered; SCS for LD #1 resolved. LD #2 is discarded.
6. Try SCS to recover LD #2: roll 5.
7. Use LD #1 to change roll to 6. LD #2 is recovered; SCS for LD #2 resolved. LD #1 is discarded.
8. Try SCS to recover LD #1: roll 6. LD #1 is recovered; SCS for LD #1 resolved.

4 one-shot items were used and SCS was used 4 times.

I don’t really want to think about how Fairy Fortune fits into this as I’ve already spent way too much time on it as it is :)

If there is some gap in my logic, please let me know. Otherwise, the following tactics are possible using this infinite loop:

1. Infinite combat strength by using and reusing a potion in battle
2. Infinite ability to end others’ combats with nothing gained using Friendship Potion or Potion of Cowardice (can be blocked by Raincoat, Restraining Order, Annihilation, or Charmed Circle)
3. 100% stealing success rate
4. 100% running away success rate from monsters that are possible to run away from...or if you have an automatic run away card, guaranteed running away even then
5. Instant jump to level 9 by rolling 6’s over and over with The Occasionally Reliable Amulet
6. Ability to steal any monster away from someone in any combat for the rest of the game using Transferral Potion (can be blocked by same cards as #2 above)
7. Complete protection from Curses if you have a Wishing Ring or Lucky Talisman
8. Complete protection from all other players interfering with your combats with a Restraining Order
9. Ability to block any other player from successful Run Away rolls using Flask of Glue, or rolls of any kind using Feline Intervention. This can be exploited by Bards into forcing anyone of any level to help you in any battle (except one in which you would win the game) for no reward.

...and probably even more that I haven't considered or that involved cards that I haven't seen.

[Kirt]

Originally Posted by smoothhands

1. Infinite combat strength by using and reusing a potion in battle

A potion used in combat is "used" until the end of the combat, at which point it is discarded, along with all the other cards that modified the combat.

I do not believe it would be possible to use the same potion more than once in a combat through a mechanism which involved recovering discards, because by the time the potion was actually discarded, the combat would be over.

[Iceclaw]

Originally Posted by Kirt

A potion used in combat is "used" until the end of the combat, at which point it is discarded, along with all the other cards that modified the combat.

I do not believe it would be possible to use the same potion more than once in a combat through a mechanism which involved recovering discards, because by the time the potion was actually discarded, the combat would be over.

The issue comes from Second Chance Sparkles which includes "...may be used again, even in the same combat."

[smoothhands]

Originally Posted by Iceclaw

The issue comes from Second Chance Sparkles which includes "...may be used again, even in the same combat."

Right. Mods have stated in the past that the effects of potions recovered by Second Chance Sparkles accumulate in the same battle.

[thedag]

Originally Posted by smoothhands

Setup: one-shot item, 2 Loaded Die (LD #1 and LD #2), Second Chance Sparkles (SCS)

the only gap i'm seeing in your logic is that the setup in the OP was not what you have here. There was only one loaded die. Having said that yes it can be a loop but suddenly finding every single curse in the game being played on you or being the target of theft etc will put a dampner on things

[MiniMunch]

Originally Posted by thedag

the only gap i'm seeing in your logic is that the setup in the OP was not what you have here. There was only one loaded die. Having said that yes it can be a loop but suddenly finding every single curse in the game being played on you or being the target of theft etc will put a dampner on things

Theft yes, but with one wishing ring and this setup you're immune to all curses

[smoothhands]

Originally Posted by MiniMunch

Theft yes, but with one wishing ring and this setup you're immune to all curses

What's crazy about our game was that the player who had the two LD and SCS also had Tinfoil Hat and Sandals of Protection--so no curses--plus a Friendship Potion allowing him to cancel (almost) every battle if he chose and a Doppleganger that made him have infinite combat strength. Ironically enough right after we realized he had infinite one-shot reloading and guaranteed dice rolling, literally the next player who went ended up winning the game because he used Restraining Order to block the Friendship Potion, along with other stuff to counter other players' moves. We were sure that the player was going to be a god for all intents and purposes with his setup, and couldn't believe that the game was over so quickly after he "rose to power".

[Solelron]

several ways to stop the loop. Just like those, its all a matter of correct set of card collection :)

[smoothhands]

Originally Posted by Solelron

several ways to stop the loop. Just like those, its all a matter of correct set of card collection :)

Several ways to stop it, but the problem comes when you go 5 or 6 rounds before someone draws the necessary card to stop it.

-Stealing Second Chance Sparkles
-Curse (only a very select few Curses would have a significant effect, such as losing a small item or Generosity)

actually now that I think of it those are the only two ways I know of to permanently stop the loop.

[MiniMunch]

Annihilation would do it, no?