Ultra-Lite's Skills in Standard GURPS

[Michael Thayne]

Hmmm... you know, it did occur to me to ask "how do you convert Ultra-Lite to standard GURPS?" Not exactly sure why you'd want to do it, though, but two reasons come to mind:

(1) Paying 12/level for wildcard skills makes the math clunky. Solution: make attribute - 1 cost 10 points, charge 10 points/level for each level after that, and prohibit buying a wildcard skill below attribute - 1.

(2) You like the fact that Ultra-Lite's skill system is based on your job description (Knight, Spy, etc.) Solution: make wildcard skills that reflect this, since some GURPS books already do (like the first books in the Dungeon Fantasy and Action.)

[fewilcox]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

Hmmm... you know, it did occur to me to ask "how do you convert Ultra-Lite to standard GURPS?"

The point of this thread is to ask that very question.

(1) Paying 12/level for wildcard skills makes the math clunky. Solution: make attribute - 1 cost 10 points, charge 10 points/level for each level after that, and prohibit buying a wildcard skill below attribute - 1.

(2) You like the fact that Ultra-Lite's skill system is based on your job description (Knight, Spy, etc.) Solution: make wildcard skills that reflect this, since some GURPS books already do (like the first books in the Dungeon Fantasy and Action.)

None of the above, actually (and why would the second one even matter?). I just get tired of trying to explain GURPS' skill system to new players. It's the only part of the game that actually is as complicated as people complain the whole game is.

I also sometimes award skill ranks instead of CP but it's made exceedingly difficult when it could cost that particular character 1, 2, or 4 points. It'd be much easier if they all cost the same.

I try to encourage everyone to take bang skills but they're so expensive that I'm the only person who uses them regularly.

UL's skills seem like a much better system for our group if we can figure out how to make them work with the rest of standard GURPS.

[BaHalus]

But they all cost the same (4/level), basically, only the first two levels are cheaper.

And the cost is the same for every attribute. In third edition IQ skills cost was 2/level, Very Hard IQ skills were 4/level and Physical Skills were 8/level.

And all with the same idea of initial levels costing less.

The only thing that I think that may get a little complicated is the pre-def based in other skills.

If you want to reward in skill levels, there are several possibilities, from start, just consider that you will give 4 points and decide where you will giver these points.

give one advance in:
two skills level 2 (2CPs) to level 3 (4CPs), or
two Skills Level 1 (1CP) to level 2 (2CPs) and one level 2 (2CPs) to level 3 (4CPs), or
four level 1 (1CP) to four level 2 (2CPs), or
one skill level 3 or higher to a higher level, or
give four unlerarned skills in level 1, or
increase some low level skill and give other skill in low level, etc

With you think about giving more than one low level at a time, you may also give:
two Skills Level 1 (1CP) to level 2 (2CPs) and 3 (4CPs), or
give an unlerarned skill in level 3, or
give two unlerarned skills in level 2, or

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Basically, what I am calling a level 1 skill is a skill in Attribute level minus difficult of the skill. That will cost 1 point.

Easy (0)
Medium (1)
Hard (2)
Very Hard (3)

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What I see is that You are having trouble about the link between Attribute and Skill.

You may consider fixing attributes in 10 and leveling only secondary things and/or consider all skills Starting at 12 minus difficult of the skill for 4 points (What is basically forbiding the first two levels)

Or you can mantain the attributes and just forbid the first levels of a skill, or keep them just for background skills that aren't supposed to improve in the adventure (like farming, cooking, housekeeping, etc).

You may also think about forbinding advantages that grants bonus for skills too (Like talents, flexibility, combat reflexes, Magery level 1 or higher, and so on), if it is making things complicated too.

[fewilcox]

Originally Posted by BaHalus

If you want to reward in skill levels, there are several possibilities, from start, just consider that you will give 4 points and decide where you will giver these points.

give one advance in:
two skills level 2 (2CPs) to level 3 (4CPs), or
two Skills Level 1 (1CP) to level 2 (2CPs) and one level 2 (2CPs) to level 3 (4CPs), or
four level 1 (1CP) to four level 2 (2CPs), or
one skill level 3 or higher to a higher level, or
give four unlerarned skills in level 1, or
increase some low level skill and give other skill in low level, etc

Like I said, way too much effort.

You may also think about forbinding advantages that grants bonus for skills too (Like talents, flexibility, combat reflexes, Magery level 1 or higher, and so on), if it is making things complicated too.

Why on Earth would I want to do that? As evidenced by the fact that I have a degree in engineering and my wife has gone back to school to become a math teacher, the math is not only no problem for us, it's actually an attraction of the system. I just want a simpler system for one-shots and mini-campaigns and for introducing new people.

You're obviously not getting the point of the thread. I'm looking for advice on simplifying GURPS' skills system and NOT looking for a discussion of reasons why so I won't be discussing it further because I'd like to stop derailing my own thread.

[Infornific]

Originally Posted by fewilcox

The point of this thread is to ask that very question.

None of the above, actually (and why would the second one even matter?). I just get tired of trying to explain GURPS' skill system to new players. It's the only part of the game that actually is as complicated as people complain the whole game is.

I also sometimes award skill ranks instead of CP but it's made exceedingly difficult when it could cost that particular character 1, 2, or 4 points. It'd be much easier if they all cost the same.

I try to encourage everyone to take bang skills but they're so expensive that I'm the only person who uses them regularly.

UL's skills seem like a much better system for our group if we can figure out how to make them work with the rest of standard GURPS.

As already mentioned, Ultralite skills are more or less the same as Bang skills and have similar costs. Just call the Bang skill what you'd call it in Ultralite. Basically a level in ultralite is roughly equivalent to 40 points in GURPS. So in ultralite, +4 costs 40 points while for a Bang skill +4 is 48 points.

The -6 default is pretty much the same as the standard GURPS untrained default (-4 to -6) Where the system breaks down is the enormous cost for basic training in an ultralite skill. A Bang skill at attribute-2 would cost 6 points, not 40.

If you want to encourage use of Bang/ultralite skills, just make sure one skill covers the bulk of a character's concept. Dungeon Fantasy has some good examples. Remember when calculating the cost of a Bang skill that it will generally replace Talents as well as skills. Most of the DF templates work well with Bang skills - the Knight is arguably more powerful using the Knight! skill than with standard skills and Talents. You might try working up alternate versions of your player characters using Bang skills, showing them how that can create effective characters with a shorter skill list. Alternately, reduce the cost of the Bang skill if your players find the current cost too much.

If you really want to simplify, reduce the number of skill levels available. E.g.,

Familiar [5] - Make all skill checks at Attribute -2.

Competent [20] - Make all skill checks at Attribute.

Professional [40] - Make all skill checks at Attribute+2

Expert [60] - Make all skill checks at Attribute+6

Master [80] - Make all skill checks at Attribute+8

Also allow defaults from skill rather than Attribute for related skills - this can help cut down on any need for secondary skills.

[Infornific]

Originally Posted by Infornific

Expert [60] - Make all skill checks at Attribute+6

Master [80] - Make all skill checks at Attribute+8

Sorry, that should be

Expert [60] - Make all skill checks at Attribute+4

Master [80] - Make all skill checks at Attribute+6

[BaHalus]

Just make the first skill level at atr+2-dif for 4 points, that will make every level to cost 4 and will not change the general mechanics.

In other words: make 4 points as the minimum for adventuring skills.