GURPS Dark Sun Conversion

[Jürgen Hubert]

Originally Posted by NineDaysDead

A thri kreen template (I favour higher point templates that tend to significantly differ from baseline humans):

Athasian Thri-kreen [370]
ST +5 (NFM -40%, SM+2 -20%) [20]; DX +3 [60]; IQ -1 [-20].

I can see making them SM+1 given their height and especially length. In fact, I should probably do give them that in the next version. However, SM+2 seems a bit much, given that they don't have nearly as much bulk as half-giants. Furthermore, I wouldn't give them increased ST, either - they never got any Strength bonuses in the original material, and much of their musculature is probably used to support that heavy exoskeleton as well as their leaping muscles. Furthermore, I consider +2 DX to be plenty - that's already very, very dexterous (the same goes for your elves).

I will have to think about the other elements in your list. I think your writeup would make for a fine "Dungeon Fantasy"-style enemy writeup - a dangerous foe of the desert. However, for a base racial template this is probably a bit much, and I would prefer it if they remain playable for ordinary "heroic" campaigns at 150 points or less.

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by Jürgen Hubert

I can see making them SM+1 given their height and especially length. In fact, I should probably do give them that in the next version. However, SM+2 seems a bit much, given that they don't have nearly as much bulk as half-giants.

You're right they don't have as much bulk as half-giants. I'm just following GURPS rules for determining SM:

When creating a creature that is larger or smaller than a human, find its SM by looking up its longest dimension – height for upright creatures such as giants, length for horizontal creatures such as cats and dragons, diameter for blobs – on the Size Modifier Table (above).
If a creature’s longest dimension falls between two entries on the table, base its SM on the higher value. Box-, sphere-, or blob-shaped characters add +2 to SM; elongated boxes, like most ground vehicles, add +1.

Their longest dimension is 10 foot 8 inches to 11 foot.

Furthermore, I wouldn't give them increased ST, either - they never got any Strength bonuses in the original material, and much of their musculature is probably used to support that heavy exoskeleton as well as their leaping muscles.

Well 3rd ed gave them Strength +2, but one of thes reason I gave them:
ST +5 (NFM -40%, SM+2 -20%) [15];
is that they mass 450lbs -470 lbs. Think about what that should mean for slams. You could drop that to HP +5 (SM+2 -20%) [8]; which saves 7 points.

Originally Posted by Jürgen Hubert

Furthermore, I consider +2 DX to be plenty - that's already very, very dexterous (the same goes for your elves).

Originally Posted by Thri-kreen of athas page 23

Despite their great size, thri-kreen are quite dexterous. The adjusted Dexterity for a thri-kreen player character ranges from a minimum of 17 to a maximum of 22. While the most agile halflings and elves are equal to the most agile thri-kreen, the average thri-kreen is more dexterous than an average member of any other race.

[Pragmatic]

Less focus on the details, more focus on the feeling.

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

Less focus on the details, more focus on the feeling.

Templates are made of details, the emergent properties of these details contribute to the feeling.

[Pragmatic]

Right. But trying to do exact conversions of AD&D material to GURPS are generally doomed. (For instance, try to get non-supers characters to fight a converted Great Wyrm red dragon...)

Within the setting of Dark Sun, what is the feeling of Thri-kreen?

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

Right. But trying to do exact conversions of AD&D material to GURPS are generally doomed. (For instance, try to get non-supers characters to fight a converted Great Wyrm red dragon...)

Within the setting of Dark Sun, what is the feeling of Thri-kreen?

Me and him did this tango earlier. Better just to move on, I think.

[Dunadin777]

Originally Posted by Jürgen Hubert

I would prefer it if they remain playable for ordinary "heroic" campaigns at 150 points or less.

As someone who just picked up the Dark Sun books for 4e and prefers his GURPS games to be under 200 points, I must echo this preference. I don't think level bonuses should factor much into translation here, as GURPS advancement is much more subtle and granular than any edition of D&D. And if any and all Thri-kreens could easily kill or render useless my 150 pt PCs, I'm simply not going to use those write-ups. At all.

So, NineDaysDead, you can keep doing your thing. You clearly aren't considering low-level adventures in Athas a real possibility for long-term play, and that's fine.

But Jürgen, please keep your values a bit more tempered, as you've been doing, so those of us who like low-powered games can have a ready resource for doing GURPS campaigns in Athas.

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by Dunadin777

But Jürgen, please keep your values a bit more tempered, as you've been doing, so those of us who like low-powered games can have a ready resource for doing GURPS campaigns in Athas.

Here's my 1 hour back of the envelope conversion:

Aarakocra 30

Attribute Modifiers: ST-2 [-20]; DX+2 [40].
Secondary Characteristic Modifiers: SM+1.
Advantages: Extra Arms 2 (Foot Manipulators, -30%; Short, -50%) [4]; Flight (Winged, -25%) [30]; Sharp Beak [1]; Sharp Claws [5]; Telescopic Vision 3 [15].
Disadvantages: Claustrophobia (12) [-15]; Vulnerability (Crushing, x2) [-30].
Features: Born Biter. Torso armor isn’t interchangeable with human torso armor.

Dwarf 45

Attribute Modifiers: HT+1 [10].
Secondary Characteristic Modifiers: FP+3 [9]; Basic Move-1 [-5].
Advantages: Alcohol Tolerance [1]; Dark Vision [25]; Higher Purpose (Focus) [5]; Lifting ST 2 [6]; Magic Resistance 1 [5]; Resistant to Poison (+3) [5].
Disadvantages: Obsession(Focus) (12) [-5]; Stubbornness [-5]; Workaholic [-5].
Quirks: Single-Minded [-1].
Features: Armor isn’t interchangeable with human armor.

Elf 50

Attribute Modifiers: DX+1 [20].
Secondary Characteristic Modifiers: Basic Move+1 [5]; Per +1 [5].
Advantages: Night Vision 5 [5]; Racial Skill Bonus (Running, +3) [6]; Temperature Tolerance 9 [9]; Very Fit [15].
Disadvantages: Laziness [-10]; Social Stigma(Criminal Record) [-5].

Half-Elf 10

Attribute Modifiers: DX+1 [20].
Advantages: Animal Empathy [5]; Night Vision 5 [5].
Disadvantages: Loner (12) [-5]; Low Self-Image [-10]; Social Stigma (Half-Breed) [-5].

Half-Giant 55

Attribute Modifiers: ST+8 (Size, -20%) [64]; DX-1 [-20]; IQ-2 [-40]; HT+2 [20].
Secondary Characteristic Modifiers: SM +2, Basic Move +1 [5].
Advantages: Damage Resistance 2 (Tough Skin, -40%) [6]; Dark Vision [25].
Disadvantages: Chummy [-5].

Halfling -26

Attribute Modifiers: ST-2 [-20]; DX+1 [20].
Secondary Characteristic Modifiers: SM -1; Basic Move-1 [-5].
Advantages: Acute Hearing 2 [4]; Acute Taste and Smell 2 [4]; Halfling Marksmanship 2* [10].
Disadvantages: Low TL 1 [-5]; Odious Personal Habit (Eats Other Sentients) [-15]; Social Stigma (Monster) [-15].

Human

Mul 84

Attribute Modifiers: ST+4 [40]; HT+2 [20].
Advantages: Dark Vision [25]; Hard to Subdue 2 [4]; Very Fit [15].
Disadvantages: Social Stigma (Subjugated) [-20].
Features: Sterile.

Pterran 51

Attribute Modifiers: DX-1 [-20].
Secondary Characteristic Modifiers: Per +1 [5]; Will +1 [5].
Advantages: Claws (Sharp) [5]; Damage Resistance 2 (Tough Skin, -40%) [6]; Empathy [15]; Nictitating Membrane 2 [2]; Peripheral Vision [15]; Striker (Tail; Crushing; Clumsy, -2 to hit, -40%) [3]; Teeth (Sharp) [1]; Telesend (Racial, -20%; Telepathic, -10%) [21]; Temperature Tolerance 3 [3].
Disadvantages: Hard of Hearing [-10].
Features: Armor isn’t interchangeable with human armor. Blue, brown, gray, or green scales. Born Biter. Cannot learn non-reptilian languages above Accented level.

Thri-Kreen 127

Attribute Modifiers: DX+2 [40]; IQ-1 [-20]; HT+1 [10].
Secondary Characteristic Modifiers: SM+0, Basic Move +1 [5]; Per+2 [10]; Will +2 [10].
Advantages: Affliction 1 (Paralytic Venom: HT; Follow-Up, Teeth or Striker, +0%; Paralysis, +150%) [25], Claws (Sharp) [5]; Damage Resistance 4 (Can’t Wear Armor, -40%) [12]; Doesn't Sleep [20]; Extra Arms 2 [20]; Extra Attack 1 [25]; Teeth (Sharp) [1]; Super Jump 2 [20]; Vibration Sense (Air) [10].
Disadvantages: Appearance (Hideous) [-16]; Bestial [-10]; Disturbing Voice [-10]; Hidebound [-5]; Low TL 1 [-5]; Sense of Duty (Clutch) [-5]; Social Stigma (Monster) [-15].
Features: Cannot learn non-insect languages above Accented level.

You can trim some points by switching to Infravision to everyone who has Dark Vision and play with some social disadvantages. You could save quite a bit on the thri-kreen template by making the poison and super jumping power-ups that older kreen develop and let the players buy it in play. Halflings in particular I'm not really happy with (they're supposed to be unholy terrors) but like I said, back of the envelope calculation. For both the Elves and the Mul with their "endurance ++" stuff I just gave them Very Fit. Aarockra might need some sort of point-break to represent the fact that they lose the use of their top arms when they fly, but I can't figure out how to build that, since they DO have manipulators due to their agile lower claws. I'd strongly recommend giving Pterrans Telepathy 1 talent and replace their Telesend ability with something in Psionic Powers if using that supplement.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by NineDaysDead

Well 3rd ed gave them Strength +2, but one of thes reason I gave them:
ST +5 (NFM -40%, SM+2 -20%) [15];

Except by RAW, you can't do this unless they also have NFM, which they don't (and shouldn't). You could give them Weak Arms instead.

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Except by RAW, you can't do this unless they also have NFM, which they don't (and shouldn't). You could give them Weak Arms instead.

Originally Posted by Kromm

If the aesthetics bug people, rename No Fine Manipulators to Lower Body Only at the same value and with the same effects. :)

Rename it "Lower Body Only -40%"