GURPS Dark Sun Conversion

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

So to be clear, what are the point totals for games that you allow players to play Thri-Kreen in? Keeping in mind that their racial template alone costs more than being a Navy SEAL?

Whenever they could afford the template.

[Pragmatic]

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

Are you talking about turning into something besides a Dragon from too much defiling?

I THIHK it's called a "t'liz"?

But more than that, have stuff like "defiler aura" and such.

[Pragmatic]

Originally Posted by NineDaysDead

IIRC, I believe Hamanu was able to switch between the two types in "The rise and fall of a dragon king".

IIRC, the author of RAFOADK received no support from the RPG folks at WOTC. As such, the canon-ness of the book must be judged very, very, very loose.

[tetrahedron]

Here is the defiling rules that I've used - both defilers and preservers use the same mechanic - threshold magic. Differences between their threshold limit and recovery. It allows you to use the same system and temps preservers to defile!

Dark Sun has two major styles of magic: defiling and preserving. Both are modeled on Threshold magic as described in T76, except that it uses a special calamity chart with modifiers based on terrain.

Defiling Magery [costs 2 for level 0; 4 for each additional level] gives the wizard a threshold of 0 with a recovery of 6 energy points per day.

Magery 0 (Reduced Threshold 5, -50%; Slower Magical Recovery 1, -10%. T79)

Preserving Magery [costs 5 for level 0; 10 for each additional level] gives the wizard a threshold of 30 and a recovery of 8 energy points per day.

Magery 0 (B66)

Both defilers and preservers can purchase increases or decreases in their recovery or threshold totals, although only preservers are likely to increase their threshold total. Preservers also tend to take a Vow (Do not exceed threshold limit) [-10].

Exceeding Threshold – Defiling
When a wizard casts a spell on Athas, they draw power from the world around them. Every spell caster has a small reservoir of power within themselves, based on their interaction with the world. Preserver training allows a spell caster to expand on their reservoir; Defilers do not spend the time to learn, choosing rather to supplement their power by taking from their environment. Once a spell caster exceeds their threshold, they roll on the Defiling Calamity table. They roll 3d and add 1 for every full 5 points by which tally exceeds threshold after this casting. This roll is further modified by the terrain the spell caster happens to be in. If the Calamity check total is 29+, then the spell automatically fails unless the caster can make a Will roll at a penalty equal to the bonus of the Calamity check.

Effects of Defiling
Defilers absorb every bit of life energy they can hold, with the result that the land they tap into is leeched and left barren of nutrients, incapable of supporting plant life. Plants in the defiled area die and turn to ash when the life spark is removed. Unlike with natural death, however, the decaying process occurs in an instant, and nothing remains within the dead ash to continue the life cycle—plants killed by defiling magic return nothing to the soil and don’t revert to life-giving fertilizer when they die. The land becomes barren for one year before enough of a life spark is created to sustain growth again.

Defiler Terrain Modifier
The abundance of life in a certain type of terrain effects how much of an area is harmed by defiling. Apply the below modifiers to a calamity roll.

Lush Terrain (forests, large gardens, parks) -3
Abundant Terrain (verdant belts, grasslands, mud flats) -2
Fertile Terrain (oases, scrub plains) +0
Infertile Terrain (stony barrens, rocky badlands, bare mountains) +3
Barren Terrain (boulder fields, sandy wastes, salt flats) +5

Defiling Calamity Table
Roll Area of Defiling
3–5 1 yard
6 2 yards
7 3 yards
8 4 yards
9 5 yards
10 6 yards
11 7 yards
12 9 yards
13 10 yards
14 11 yards
15 12 yards
16 13 yards
17 14 yards
18 15 yards
19 16 yards
20 17 yards
21 20 yards
22 22 yards
23 24 yards
24 26 yards
25 28 yards
26 30 yards
27 32 yards
28 34 yards
29 36 yards
30 38 yards
31 40 yards
+1 +5 yards

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

And if you make racial templates all hundreds of points, why the heck are humans the dominant species in the setting?

That is an important question from the perspective of creating a believable world, and should be answered.

1. The Cleansing Wars. The surviving non-humans may well have not recovered from the near genocide they endured. This won't apply to Humans, Halflings or Thri-kreen, for different reasons.
2. High point totals don't always translate to racial world domination, it depends on how those points are spent. Here's a racial breakdown:

Dwarves: long-term planners, hard working, most likely to dominate the setting, I'd be guessing low birth rates as to why not (weakest explanation)

Elves: "they detest hard labor and will never voluntarily set out to construct anything more durable than a tent or small hut", no racial unity, no long term planning but instead thinking only for "the now", not a settled existence allowing them to build up material assets, not a recipe for setting domination.

Half-Elves: Outcast hybrids with no support group. Probably not a high point total either.

Muls: If they weren't rare, sterile hybrids, then they might have more of an impact on the setting.

Half-Giants: Big and tough, but stupid and foolish is not a recipe for setting domination.

Halflings: They live in the most fertile place in the region, so in one sense they are the dominant species (most resources), and I don't even see them having a vastly high point total.

Thri-kreen: Short lifespan, IQ 9 + Hidebound and compulsive hunting doesn't seem like they'd change from their nomadic existence (which is already basically their ideal existence).

[Pragmatic]

@ tetrahedron:

I think the problem most people will have with your system is, it has the same problem that all versions of D&D Dark Sun have had (well, 2E, 2E revised, and both Dragon and Athas.org 3.0E/3.5E versions... not sure of 4E version).

It puts a divide between defilers and preservers, when there should be a spectrum. Yes, defilers will all too often just be people who were never taught any better--that's the default after the Cleansing Wars (after the purge of the preservers). But there will also be preservers who will be tempted into defiling "just in emergencies."

All of which leads me into saying (after reviewing Threshold Magic in Thaumataology and seeing that you've set up the Threshold Magery up properly... :-P) that you should might want to allow multiple gradations (and multiple paths...) between 100% Preserver and 100% Defiler.

So, for instance, you might want a THM ("Threshold Magery") that costs 9 per level (Reduced Threshold 1 OR Slower Magical Recover 1, for instance), as a preserver gets used to the idea of sapping a little extra from the environment.

Also, maybe start awarding negative points towards disadvantages for particularly high "tallies." So, for instance (totally off the top of my head), every calamity check which exceeds the threshold requires a check against... I dunno, Thaumatology?... at +1 penalty (??) per 5 points above the threshold. Failure means 1 point towards a disadvantage from a list (to be determined). For full-on preservers, that can be points towards reducing the THM. As they get to be full-on defilers, that can be points towards conversion to a T'liz (see Dark Sun MC 2; the athas.org site had rules on becoming a t'liz, IIRC)--or simply picking up the Defiler Aura or what-not.

Still, like the work. :-)

Edit: Also, don't see any mention of how to roll above 23 (18 on 3d, +5 for "boulder fields, sandy wastes, salt flats), on your list there. I think you forgot to include your "repeated casting in one spot" or "+1 per 5 pts above threshold limit" rules...?

Edit 2: I'd also consider taking the reduction in THM costs (as the full-preserver slips towards full-defiler towards full-t'liz...) and letting the player spend them towards some of the minor variations within Thaumatology. For instance, Thaumatology p. 39-40. And if the nascent-defiler wants to work their way back to preserver, they lose these perks to pay for the increased cost of THM.

Oooh, and that could be a way of showing how powerful a defiler is, by having them purchase the difference in Defiler cost-reduced THM from Pure-Preserver full-cost THM. So, for instance, a Preserver Threshold Magery 2 costs 25 points. Whereas let's say a Defiler has a 20% reduction (whatever combination of limitations...), reducing it to 20 points. The five points saved have to be spent on perks for spells (e.g., "Fireball/Increased Range" technique at 5 points). Not sure what to do with the extra mana costs (e.g., "Fireball/Increased Range" at 5pts means that 2x range is +2 mana and +0 effective skill; 5x range is +4 mana and +0 effective skill; 10x range is +6 mana and -1 effective skill; and 20x range is +8 mana and -3 effective skill)...

[tetrahedron]

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

@ tetrahedron:
It puts a divide between defilers and preservers, when there should be a spectrum. Yes, defilers will all too often just be people who were never taught any better--that's the default after the Cleansing Wars (after the purge of the preservers). But there will also be preservers who will be tempted into defiling "just in emergencies."

The intent here was to make a spectrum here... it costs much more to learn the ways of a preserver, but they can still defile. Defiling is cheaper, but they can start to by up their threshold by learning preserver techniques... which is what I think you are getting at.

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

Edit: Also, don't see any mention of how to roll above 23 (18 on 3d, +5 for "boulder fields, sandy wastes, salt flats), on your list there. I think you forgot to include your "repeated casting in one spot" or "+1 per 5 pts above threshold limit" rules...?

I think I got it in there...

Thanks for the comments Pragmatic. I will think some more on this.

[Kallatari]

For the defiling/preserver part, personally, I wouldn't make it a character trait; it's a setting trait.

First, I'd link the local mana level to the quantity of plants in the area. This "mana level" represents the amount of energy any magic user can safely draw from the plants without risk of harming them.

Both preservers and defilers simply have Magery, and follow the normal rules for casting, energy cost, etc. However, no one can learn Energy Reserve for magic*. So, they must either have sufficient Fatigue Points to cast the spells themselves, or...

As a setting feature, all casters can, at any time, access an environmental energy reserve from nearby plants in a process called defiling. If a caster defiles the local area, it kills off all plants in a 1-yard radius per point of energy accessed (or modify results to fit how you view defiling in the setting). Frequent defiling in an area will eventually reduce the local mana level.

Preservers will do their best not to defile as they do not want to kill the plants and want to maintain the local mana levels, taking a long-term view of the power of magic as a whole. Defilers tend to care more about their own personal and immediate power, and thus will freely access this environmental energy without caring for the consequences. Since any magic user can access this at any time, it's a 0 point feature for both defilers and preservers.

I personally then view the use of defiling or not is merely an immediate choice by the mage. You do not need anything else other than a roleplay of their view on immediate power vs long-term mana. Using defiling will be easier of course, and should represent a slipery slope, but players can probably fall down that slope on their own, particularly when forced to use magic frequently in a short period of time, which happens a lot on adventures.

That said, if you do want to have a "game effect" for such corruption, rule that using the local energy directly from plants is addictive, and requires a Will roll with a penalty equal to amount of energy used. Rather than using the actual Addiction disadvantage, I'd use Compulsive Behavior:

Compulsive Defiling (-5 CP): when using magic, the character must make a self-control roll to NOT use local plant energy if it is available.

The first time you fail a Will roll, you gain it at a self-control level of 15, then each subsequent failure drops it by one level, until you reach the worse case of self-control 6. It can be bought off, with sufficient "training" (or quest and magical ritual, whatever you feel appropriate)... but you can regain it each and every time you fail a Will roll when using the energy pool from the plants.


*Optionally, you can learn Energy Reserve for magic, representing those who have better learned to slowly harvest and store the energy from plants over time without killing all local plants immediately. This will reduce the temptation of defiling magic to some extent, but, since a caster would have to pay CP for that Energy Reserve, it does show that defiling is the easy path as it costs them nothing and they can focus their points on spells rather than energy. I guess this depends on how powerful you want to allow preservers to become as it would be impossible for them to cast powerful spells without defiling if they do not have access to an Energy Reserve. Then again, the same effect can be achieved by simply having casters improve their spell skill level until the energy cost to cast is reduced to 0, thus they wouldn't need to drain either. I prefer that route myself to represent powerful spellcasters, which is why I'd not allow Energy Reserve as a player trait, but to each GM his own.

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

maybe a modification of Leech + Lifebane. Plus really high level defilers could actually suck the life right out of people. Part of why I kind of like taking the advantage route, you can start with plant Leech + Magery and upgrade to non-limited Leech once you're powerful enough.

I'd take a look at the plant density/sanctity rules from GURPS: Plant Magic and use that to determine local available energy.

Yeah the ability to suck the life right out of people and even use stolen life force to heal yourself (Nibenay; The Cerulean Storm) really suggests Leech.

[Pragmatic]

Missed that part. :-P Wasn't among the modifiers, and I tend to glance over the text to get to the crunchies. :-)

A slight modification to my "skill-based technique" idea.

Instead of each technique point going towards one modifier/spell combo, which seems cost-prohibitive, how about the following?

Each technique point applies to one additional modifier/spell combo, but the technique bonus to skill penalties tops off as usual at -0. So, for instance, "Increased Range" at technique level 1 applies to 1 spell (as allowed by the GM...), and can cancel up to -1 of skill penalty. At level 2, it applies to 2 spells, and can cancel up to -2 of skill penalties. At level 5, it applies to 5 spells, and can cancel up to -5 of skill penalties. At level 7, it applies to 7 spells, but still only cancels up to -5 of skill penalties (i.e., "Increased Range" is a skill-5 technique, so can only cancel up to -5 of skill penalties).

Barring certain ancient spellcasters in the setting--e.g., the sorceror-kings and some undead--nobody has the Unusual Background to be able to modify spells on the fly (per the "Spell Variation" per spell, or the "Spell Enhancement" per modifier). (Maybe the Royal Defilers for the different city-states, especially Nibenay's defilers...) So I'd be leery of letting the Thau p. 40 "Accurate +3 (+15%) and Increased Range 5x (+20%) [-7 to skill, +7 mana]" come from just ANY spellcaster--nobody below a high-powered NPC has that much training... Make 'em buy the techniques if they want those combos. (So "Accurate" +3 to apply, as I stated above, to 3 different spells, and Increased Range 5x, to apply to 4 different spells, and having Ice Bolt be one spell in common between the two, thereby being able to cast Ice Bolt (Accurate +3, Increased Range 5x) at -0 skill and +7 mana, for an additional 7 character points. (Or even Ice Bolt (Accurate +1, Increased Range 1x (1 point, not enough to get to 2x)) at -5 skill and +7 mana, for only 2 extra character points.)