GURPS Dark Sun Conversion

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Except by RAW, you can't do this unless they also have NFM, which they don't (and shouldn't). You could give them Weak Arms instead.

Originally Posted by Kromm

If the aesthetics bug people, rename No Fine Manipulators to Lower Body Only at the same value and with the same effects. :)

Rename it "Lower Body Only -40%"

[Dunadin777]

Originally Posted by Jürgen Hubert

I would prefer it if they remain playable for ordinary "heroic" campaigns at 150 points or less.

As someone who just picked up the Dark Sun books for 4e and prefers his GURPS games to be under 200 points, I must echo this preference. I don't think level bonuses should factor much into translation here, as GURPS advancement is much more subtle and granular than any edition of D&D. And if any and all Thri-kreens could easily kill or render useless my 150 pt PCs, I'm simply not going to use those write-ups. At all.

So, NineDaysDead, you can keep doing your thing. You clearly aren't considering low-level adventures in Athas a real possibility for long-term play, and that's fine.

But Jürgen, please keep your values a bit more tempered, as you've been doing, so those of us who like low-powered games can have a ready resource for doing GURPS campaigns in Athas.

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by Dunadin777

But Jürgen, please keep your values a bit more tempered, as you've been doing, so those of us who like low-powered games can have a ready resource for doing GURPS campaigns in Athas.

Here's my 1 hour back of the envelope conversion:

Aarakocra 30

Attribute Modifiers: ST-2 [-20]; DX+2 [40].
Secondary Characteristic Modifiers: SM+1.
Advantages: Extra Arms 2 (Foot Manipulators, -30%; Short, -50%) [4]; Flight (Winged, -25%) [30]; Sharp Beak [1]; Sharp Claws [5]; Telescopic Vision 3 [15].
Disadvantages: Claustrophobia (12) [-15]; Vulnerability (Crushing, x2) [-30].
Features: Born Biter. Torso armor isn’t interchangeable with human torso armor.

Dwarf 45

Attribute Modifiers: HT+1 [10].
Secondary Characteristic Modifiers: FP+3 [9]; Basic Move-1 [-5].
Advantages: Alcohol Tolerance [1]; Dark Vision [25]; Higher Purpose (Focus) [5]; Lifting ST 2 [6]; Magic Resistance 1 [5]; Resistant to Poison (+3) [5].
Disadvantages: Obsession(Focus) (12) [-5]; Stubbornness [-5]; Workaholic [-5].
Quirks: Single-Minded [-1].
Features: Armor isn’t interchangeable with human armor.

Elf 50

Attribute Modifiers: DX+1 [20].
Secondary Characteristic Modifiers: Basic Move+1 [5]; Per +1 [5].
Advantages: Night Vision 5 [5]; Racial Skill Bonus (Running, +3) [6]; Temperature Tolerance 9 [9]; Very Fit [15].
Disadvantages: Laziness [-10]; Social Stigma(Criminal Record) [-5].

Half-Elf 10

Attribute Modifiers: DX+1 [20].
Advantages: Animal Empathy [5]; Night Vision 5 [5].
Disadvantages: Loner (12) [-5]; Low Self-Image [-10]; Social Stigma (Half-Breed) [-5].

Half-Giant 55

Attribute Modifiers: ST+8 (Size, -20%) [64]; DX-1 [-20]; IQ-2 [-40]; HT+2 [20].
Secondary Characteristic Modifiers: SM +2, Basic Move +1 [5].
Advantages: Damage Resistance 2 (Tough Skin, -40%) [6]; Dark Vision [25].
Disadvantages: Chummy [-5].

Halfling -26

Attribute Modifiers: ST-2 [-20]; DX+1 [20].
Secondary Characteristic Modifiers: SM -1; Basic Move-1 [-5].
Advantages: Acute Hearing 2 [4]; Acute Taste and Smell 2 [4]; Halfling Marksmanship 2* [10].
Disadvantages: Low TL 1 [-5]; Odious Personal Habit (Eats Other Sentients) [-15]; Social Stigma (Monster) [-15].

Human

Mul 84

Attribute Modifiers: ST+4 [40]; HT+2 [20].
Advantages: Dark Vision [25]; Hard to Subdue 2 [4]; Very Fit [15].
Disadvantages: Social Stigma (Subjugated) [-20].
Features: Sterile.

Pterran 51

Attribute Modifiers: DX-1 [-20].
Secondary Characteristic Modifiers: Per +1 [5]; Will +1 [5].
Advantages: Claws (Sharp) [5]; Damage Resistance 2 (Tough Skin, -40%) [6]; Empathy [15]; Nictitating Membrane 2 [2]; Peripheral Vision [15]; Striker (Tail; Crushing; Clumsy, -2 to hit, -40%) [3]; Teeth (Sharp) [1]; Telesend (Racial, -20%; Telepathic, -10%) [21]; Temperature Tolerance 3 [3].
Disadvantages: Hard of Hearing [-10].
Features: Armor isn’t interchangeable with human armor. Blue, brown, gray, or green scales. Born Biter. Cannot learn non-reptilian languages above Accented level.

Thri-Kreen 127

Attribute Modifiers: DX+2 [40]; IQ-1 [-20]; HT+1 [10].
Secondary Characteristic Modifiers: SM+0, Basic Move +1 [5]; Per+2 [10]; Will +2 [10].
Advantages: Affliction 1 (Paralytic Venom: HT; Follow-Up, Teeth or Striker, +0%; Paralysis, +150%) [25], Claws (Sharp) [5]; Damage Resistance 4 (Can’t Wear Armor, -40%) [12]; Doesn't Sleep [20]; Extra Arms 2 [20]; Extra Attack 1 [25]; Teeth (Sharp) [1]; Super Jump 2 [20]; Vibration Sense (Air) [10].
Disadvantages: Appearance (Hideous) [-16]; Bestial [-10]; Disturbing Voice [-10]; Hidebound [-5]; Low TL 1 [-5]; Sense of Duty (Clutch) [-5]; Social Stigma (Monster) [-15].
Features: Cannot learn non-insect languages above Accented level.

You can trim some points by switching to Infravision to everyone who has Dark Vision and play with some social disadvantages. You could save quite a bit on the thri-kreen template by making the poison and super jumping power-ups that older kreen develop and let the players buy it in play. Halflings in particular I'm not really happy with (they're supposed to be unholy terrors) but like I said, back of the envelope calculation. For both the Elves and the Mul with their "endurance ++" stuff I just gave them Very Fit. Aarockra might need some sort of point-break to represent the fact that they lose the use of their top arms when they fly, but I can't figure out how to build that, since they DO have manipulators due to their agile lower claws. I'd strongly recommend giving Pterrans Telepathy 1 talent and replace their Telesend ability with something in Psionic Powers if using that supplement.

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

Elf
Temperature Tolerance 9 [9];

I don't have time to comment on everything now, but why did you give elves 9! levels of temperature tolerance?

Originally Posted by Elvels of athas page 12

Until the temperature climbs above 110°F or dips below 32°F, elves exhibit no undue stress.

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by Jürgen Hubert

== Half-Giant (52 points) ==

Attribute Modifiers: ST +10 (SM +1, -10%) [90], IQ -2 [-40], HT +1 [10].
Secondary Characteristic Modifiers:
Advantages: Damage Resistance 1 (Tough Skin, -40%) [3]
Disadvantages: Chummy [-5].
Features: Size Modifier +1.

With an average height of 11 foot 9 inches that should be Size Modifier +2.

Also ST +10 seems too weak, based on the max lift of their minimum strength in AD&D their ST would be around 26, based on the GURPS' (Cube root of weight) X2 it should be ST 23. If you want them to act like fantasy giants who ignore the silly square cube law, I would give them a minimum of ST 23 + Lifting ST +10, making one half giant able to lift another half giant as well as one human can lift another human.


EDIT:
With a maximum lifes span of 220 years, some degree of longevity/extended lifespan might be in order.

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by NineDaysDead

With an average height of 11 foot 9 inches that should be Size Modifier +2.

Also ST +10 seems too weak, based on the max lift of their minimum strength in AD&D their ST would be around 26, based on the GURPS' (Cube root of weight) X2 it should be ST 23. If you want them to act like fantasy giants who ignore the silly square cube law, I would give them a minimum of ST 23 + Lifting ST +10, making one half giant able to lift another half giant as well as one human can lift another human.

Alternatively, takes the stats for an Ogre from DF3, add Chummy, bump up SM to +2, and remove the hideous appearance and tone down the social stigma.

Way I figure is you can exactly copy everything D&D said all the species could do. That will likely put racial templates well beyond what is affordable for lower point games and require some pretty convoluted builds. Or you can use lower-point builds that capture the important stats and the "feel" and actually have a party with all the different races in it built on no more than 200 points, and mostly use stuff that's already been published. Personally I prefer the second approach.

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

Way I figure is you can exactly copy everything D&D said all the species could do. That will likely put racial templates well beyond what is affordable for lower point games and require some pretty convoluted builds. Or you can use lower-point builds that capture the important stats and the "feel" and actually have a party with all the different races in it built on no more than 200 points, and mostly use stuff that's already been published. Personally I prefer the second approach.

I don't see a need to keep the point totals low, Dark sun wasn't noted as a low powered setting:

Originally Posted by Back of Dark sun boxed set

More Powerful PCs!
• All DARK SUN™ game characters begin at 3rd level!
• Ability scores that can go as high as 24!
• All PCs have one or more psionic powers!

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by NineDaysDead

I don't see a need to keep the point totals low, Dark sun wasn't noted as a low powered setting:

"Post-apocalypse fantasy."

Besides, 3rd level is about on par with GURPS' normal "heroic" starting point of 150 pts, IME. Also, if you start low, you can always go to higher point totals. It's harder to come the other way.

Finally, it lets you convert DF resources with only slight tweaking.

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

"Post-apocalypse fantasy."

I don't see your point, Exalted is also "Post-apocalypse fantasy." EDIT: "Post-apocalypse fantasy." doesn't mean low point totals any more than "gritty" does.

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

Besides, 3rd level is about on par with GURPS' normal "heroic" starting point of 150 pts, IME.

3rd level is 3 times the normal starting level in AD&D.

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

Finally, it lets you convert DF resources with only slight tweaking.

Much of DF doesn't seem appropriate for Dark Sun.

[Jürgen Hubert]

I've revised some of my templates slightly:

I've also decided to leave the half-giants at SM+1 - smaller than they are represented in AD&D, but larger than the half-giants/goliaths in 4E. This does make them more playable in confined places, and to me playability is a big issue for this conversion. Besides, making then any bigger and stronger would probably be overkill in a world with poor armor.

And regarding the square-cube law and things like that... well, I consider Dark Sun a gritty setting, but not one that should be considered very realistic. After all, this is a world where apparently a perfectly valid way of coping with the burning desert sun is to strip down to your loincloths.


== Dwarf (60 points) ==

Attribute Modifiers: ST +1 [10], HT +2 [20].
Secondary Characteristic Modifiers: FP +1 [3], HP +1 [2], Will +1 [5].
Advantages: Extended Lifespan 2 [4], Higher Purpose [5], Infravision [10], Magic Resistance 3 [6].
Disadvantages: Stubbornness [-5].
Features: If the dwarf is killed while having failed his Higher Purpose, he will return as an undead banshee haunting his unfinished works.

Notes: The Higher Purpose of a dwarf is referred to as his focus. This is a longer task that requires at least one week to complete, and the dwarf may choose a new one after finishing it.
The Magic Resistance of dwarves works explicitly against wizardly magic only (defiling or preserving). Alchemical potions/fruits work normally.

== Mul (44 points) ==

Attribute Modifiers: ST +2 [20], IQ -1 [-20], HT +1 [10].
Secondary Characteristic Modifiers: FP +3 [6].
Advantages: Less Sleep 2 [4], Lifting ST 3 [9], Very Fit [15].

== Thri-kreen (jeral) (91 points) ==

Attribute Modifiers: DX +2 [40], IQ -1 [-20].
Secondary Characteristic Modifiers: Basic Move +1 [5], Basic Speed +0.5 [10], Per +2 [10]
Advantages: Affliction 1 (Paralytic Venom: HT; Follow-Up, Teeth or Striker, +0%; Paralysis, +150%) [25], Damage Resistance 4 (can't wear armor, -40%) [12], Doesn't Sleep [20], Extra Arms 2 [10], Fangs [2], Sharp Claws [5], Super Jump 2 [20], Vibration Sense (air) [10]
Disadvantages: Low TL -2 [-10], Odious Racial Habit (eats other sapients) [-15], Short Lifespan 1 [-10], Sense of Duty (Clutch) [-5], Vow (only own what they can carry, no concept of money) [-15].
Quirks: Consider elves delicious, see everything in terms of "the Hunt", test those they interact with to see if they are "worthy".
Features: Cannot jump backwards

Notes: The Fangs represent mandibles.
After being bitten, the victim must make a HT roll. Failure means he’s paralyzed for one minute times his margin of failure.
Thri-kreen may buy up to three levels of Extra Attack for their arms, even in non-cinematic games.
The racial memory can be used to justify knowledge of skills at a very early age. This is distinct from the Racial Memory advantage, which is very common among thri-kreen but not universal (since it represents especially vivid ancestral knowledge as opposed to skills).