Treasures and Helping in Combat

[Andrew Hackard]

Originally Posted by SirHaggus

So are you saying unless a helper explicitly negotiates that he has first pick of the treasure before entering combat, that because it was my combat, I would have first pick?

Yes, that's what we're saying. The rules do say that the main player always draws the Treasure after a fight, so if the helper's agreement doesn't give him the right to choose, it's the main player's choice to make.

[thedag]

Originally Posted by MunchkinMan

I'm not entirely sure why this isn't a safe assumption.

perhaps it is because we have a lawyer in our regular playing group and there is no way we are going to leave things to chance. As Andrew said never assume conditions won't change. That is why we would say "all the treasures". Leaves no room for argument if things change. In Andrews earlier posts he stated that the only rule to clarify this argument is the owner of the game has final say (post #6). It wasn't untill later he said otherwise.

Of course it may be reasonable to make that assumption but I've learnt in life not to leave room for argument is the best approach. Make things clear.

[Andrew Hackard]

Originally Posted by thedag

In Andrews earlier posts he stated that the only rule to clarify this argument is the owner of the game has final say (post #6). It wasn't untill later he said otherwise.

I'm sorry; my most recent post wasn't clear. That's not an official rule statement -- officially, the rules don't take a stance on what to do when the conditions of a fight change, nor when the Treasure-splitting agreement is ambiguous. I was restating an opinion, and I should have been clearer about that.

[aeronaut]

In our group, we use treasure position as a bargaining tool.

Helper A: There's 5 treasures right now. I'll help you for choices 3, 4, and 5.

Helper B: I'll help you for choice 2 and 5, so that's just 2 treasures.

Helper C: I'll help you for the third to last and the last treasure, and that's it.

Main player: C, done. (Pauses 2.6 seconds.) Now I play undead on the monster, we're still winning, and you get treasures 5 and 7.

Of course, this assumes it's early in the game. Later on, you can't buy help for all the treasures available.

Regards,
aeronaut

[thedag]

Originally Posted by MunchkinMan

I'm not entirely sure why this isn't a safe assumption.

I was looking at the rules for something else and in the original munchkin, munchkin holiday edition, Cthulhu, Fu, Bites, Good Bad & Munchkin they all state that when asking for help you should specify who gets what choice of treasure. So I would say that is a good reason that one should not assume the main player gets to choose. I have both old and new rules and they both say that.

[uttwich]

Originally Posted by thedag

I was looking at the rules for something else and in the original munchkin, munchkin holiday edition, Cthulhu, Fu, Bites, Good Bad & Munchkin they all state that when asking for help you should specify who gets what choice of treasure. So I would say that is a good reason that one should not assume the main player gets to choose. I have both old and new rules and they both say that.

Actually I think you just made an argument for the side opposite your opinion.

The lines you reference above stipulate that the treasure can be split up after combat amongst the helpers but it does not specify how this is to be accomplished. If there is no helper, or if the helper does not want any treasure (i.e. an elf who just wants the level), then all treasure goes to the main combatant. If you want someone to help you out, you may have to convince them to help. You can offer treasure (with no stipulation, meaning they get what they get), their pick of treasure, your pick of treasure (which is the same as first choice I mentioned, just explicitly stated), etc.

I think that if the person agreed to help for X treasures then they get X treasures (and since they didn't negotiate whether it was theri choice or yours then they get what they get). Like I said earlier, within my group this is a bargaining tool: person A will help for 1 treasure of their choice, person B offers to help for just 1 treasure.

[Andrew Hackard]

Hey, gang. Clearly this is enough of an ambiguity that we need to address it in the FAQ. We are planning to update the FAQ in the next few weeks. Till then, please hang tight.