Maximum skill level by TL

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

No you can't, but even with bare hands there are a ton of things that a higher TL physician can do that a lower TL physician cannot!

Physician != Surgery. Two different skills, two different applications, two different analyses. I don't feel like digging out GURPS High-Tech to discuss the intricacies of Physician, as it's rather complicated. Suffice it to say that the TL differences are there too.

Look at archaic medical practices that were often completely ignorant of things like infection, or basic anatomy! Most archaic writings on medicine indicate a lack of distinction between blood vessels and tendons, so just what is that TL1 surgeon going to pinch to keep you from bleeding out?

And they lacked Physician. Note that I said "Take a way a TL 8 surgeon's tools and physician and he's no better than a TL 1 character without those things." Give him Physician back, and he's at +5.

Let's look at the case of the guy with Surgery/TL1 25. He has no anaesthesia (-2) and poor tools (-6), but he still has an effective skill of 17, despite not knowing what most of those things in there do? I am supposed to believe that he is just as competent as a similarly skilled but impaired TL8 surgeon who lacks the tools but knows where everything is supposed to be and where it is and is not safe to cut and how to take care of someone afterwards? This is all knowledge.

A character with a skill of 25 is transcendently skilled. For example, a character with Guns (Rifle) 25 can hit a human target at 300 yards away without bothering to aim. You'd expect a character with a Surgery of 25 to be similarly epic.

Also, you're missing the -5 from physician, so he'd only have a 12 if he "(didn't know) what most of those things in there do." To have a 17, he would, in fact, have to know. EDIT: Oh, and the -3 for lacking proper sterilization, which drops him to 9.

I agree that he is obviously superior, I think that blaming it all on the tools is ridiculous, and am not sure how to conveniently (from a gaming perspective) differentiate the otherwise difference in (as you put it) knowledge without touching on skill.

Other modifiers apply too. You're consistently forgetting that a character must have the physician skill, which represents a decent medical knowledge, to avoid getting a -5 on anything other than "field surgery," things like extracting arrowheads or bullets.

Still don't see this, or see where these TL1 virtuoso surgeons have been hiding.

Just because you can't think of any historical examples doesn't mean they didn't exist. Moreover and more importantly, it doesn't mean the concept is a bad one. Finally, you're creating a system where acceptable TL skills are effectively impossible. With a skill cap of 11, a TL 1 character would effectively has a zero on surgical skills. You're really saying "There's no such thing as TL1 Surgery." As others have pointed out, the mechanical concept is just terrible for what you want to represent: It means that a character can "max out" for a few points. If I want to built a TL 1 doctor, I can only spend a few points, and then I'm done, the best TL 1 doctor in the world, just like everyone else who has a couple of points to spare.

And I am okay with that skill 14 Physician. I am NOT okay with a TL5 skill 25 Physician. How do you accurately determine his chance of success? He can ALSO forgo anaesthesia and sterilization without endangering the patient? Because that seems to be the result.

And he's freakin' epic. Why would that surprise you? Why is it ok for characters with Guns 25 to do crazy, over-the-top things, but not doctors? By your rules, a TL 5 House can't have an absurd amount of Diagnosis.

No, I did not, but if I allow that physician to have skills in the 20+ range then they are still going to get frequent successes, especially in those areas where they are allowed multiple attempts. This is just not realistic.

And this is a problem? You think extraordinary skilled low TL doctors never had any successes?