Kneepads of Allure when at level 8

[smoothhands]

There was a thread closed a few months back in which there was a question about this situation: you're at level 8 and use the Kneepads of Allure to force someone who is level 9 to help you kill something which gains you one level, which is legal. But then someone uses Wandering Monster to add a monster, which would then lead to gaining two levels, and thus a win.

Andrew responded:

Your helper would no longer be compelled to help, and since very few people are likely to help you if they were NOT compelled, the assumption is that at that point they can choose to wander off.

I would just like to get some clarification on the reasoning of the ruling. It seems to me that hardly EVER would someone be likely to help you for no rewards, which means this reasoning should be applicable to ANY usage of the Kneepads, not just the situation where now their help will lead to the end of the game.

The card text is pretty weakly worded about when you can't use it. It only says that the winning level can't be in a fight where the Kneepads were used to compel someone to help. It seems to me that doesn't mean you can't use them at all in this situation--only that you can't gain "the" winning level. Why wouldn't you at least be able to use the other's help to gain up TO the winning level, or collect the treasure, or at least just avoid having to run away and suffer negative consequences?

[Gaiuspud]

So I was thinking about starting a new post, but I think its too similar. Last night someone was playing as a bard. It says that you can't use his special ability for the winning level. Does that mean the person who is the Bard (or has the kneepads of Allure) can't use their ability if it will cause them to win; or does that mean they can beat the monsters for the treasure but don't level up; or does that mean they get the treasures and the levels but not win?

[MunchkinMan]

You can not use (or benefit from) the ability if winning the combat would win you the game. If you use the ability when it was legal, and then conditions change such that you would now win the game by winning the combat, whatever "spell" was compelling the player to help you is broken and the helper leaves the fight.

This is different from regular combat rules concerning a helper's ability to leave, but since these cards crate specifically different conditions, there's no reason to infer that the regular rules for combat should be ignored just because of one or two (or three) special cases.