[MA] Styles for Myth campaign

[Dunadin777]

Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc

Yeah, it's a cinematic technique for everything except pistols - I listed it in both rows because the Unusual Training perk makes it available in a non-cinematic game, but in a cinematic game it'd be available without the perk.

Ah, I suppose that's more reasonable, then. I tend to be sharply biased against anything labeled cinematic, but I really do want to see dual-weapon attacks get more coverage.

Looks fine to me, except that you can't target a cutting swing at the vitals, so it'll either have to hit the general torso or get called a thrust mechanically even though it doesn't look like one aesthetically.

That's true, but I think that a swinging attack to the vitals better approximates the damage of the final part of the attack. As a house-ruled special combo, I figure that each of the first two thrusts results in the swords becoming stuck--at that point, they have to finish the attack or make a Ready maneuver and ST roll to free the swords. This might be a dramatic gamble for fighting homogenous creatures--if they aren't truncated immediately, they'll have both your swords, and won't be terribly affected by the first two steps of the attack. I could see a Stygian Knight(armor-golem) strangling a Heron Guard even as two swords are buried up to the hilt in his midriff. The only problem to my way of thinking is that I don't think the third attack should have much chance of failing or being defended against. Suggestions of how to represent this(Telegraphic?) and keep it balanced to a traditional Combination attack would be welcome.

[Dunadin777]

UPDATED 1/27/2011: Numerous little tweaks and changes based on Gold & Appel's feedback.

Here are the next two styles, with a bit more starting direction on their representation. Both are for the Northmen--a race of men that have a lot in common with the demonized historical perception of Vikings and medieval Celts.

Northern Bone-breaking
'Bruskalle Storarm' (lit. 'Broken skull and strong-arm')
(Brutal Wrestling Style) 4 points
The Northmen of Norheim are a hardy, renowned breed. Accustomed to living in the frosty highlands and coastal villages of their rugged nation, Northmen find violence in sports and daily living as well as their brutal approach to combat. Their favorite sports have a large tendency towards killing, maiming, or at least injuring each other, and Bruskalle Storarm--their favored wrestling style--is no exception.

This wrestling style is about cruel grapples and hard hits. Northmen view fighting half-heartedly as a sign of weakness or timid character, and they don't embrace either characteristic, so even when this style is employed between drunken clan-mates, things can get serious. Broken bones and deep contusions are the common result of this being used in 'sport', and death is almost invariably its result when applied in a sober state of mind.
Skills: Brawling; Wrestling; Carousing.
Techniques: Head-butt; Arm Lock; Wrench Limb; Uppercut; Stomp; Tarteted Attack (Head Butt/face); Combination (Wrestling Grapple/Torso + Head Butt/face); Combination (Wrestling Grapple/Torso + Knee Strike/Groin + Uppercut/Face).
Cinematic Skills: To be filled in.
Cinematic Techniques: To be filled in.
Perks: Ground-fighting, Power Grappling, Special Exercises(tough skin DR 1), Neck Control, Improvised Weapons(brawling), Drunken Fighting(cinematic only).
Optional Traits
Secondary Characteristics: To be filled in.
Advantages: To be filled in.
Disadvantages: To be filled in.
Skills: To be filled in.
Techniques: To be filled in.


Sword and Shoulder
'Boskablad' (lit. 'Bull-sword')
(Two-handed Greatsword Combat Style) 4 points
The Berserkers of Norheim have been an essential part of the Legion's success over the past two centuries. Accustomed to living in the frosty highlands and coastal villages of their rugged nation, Northmen find violence in sports and daily living as well as their brutal approach to combat. Going into battle with little more than their boots and a sword--even in the winter of the lower Provinces--they are reliable scouts, fast runners, and devastating shock troops.

The Berserkers' fighting style revolves around aggressive, exclusive use of the claymore and the ferocious character of the North. Covered in scars and battle-paint, Berkerkers swing their swords in devastating, large arcs that would be considered clumsy if not for the speed and power between each hit. Without armor to rely upon, Berserkers use lunges and charges to get into combat, while quickly dodging incoming attacks. If a clever foe closes the gap, trying to get within their sword-swings, a practicioner of Boskablad will often improvise with a head-butt or quick kick to stagger their enemy back into the claymore's path.
Skills: Two-handed Greatsword; Brawling; Running.
Techniques: Spinning Attack; Head Butt; Push Kick; Combination (Push Kick/Torso + Greatsword/thrust/Torso).
Cinematic Skills: To be filled in.
Cinematic Techniques: To be filled in.
Perks: Extra Option: Arrow-proof Nudity(cinematic only).
Optional Traits
Secondary Characteristics: increased HT.
Advantages: Increased Temperature Tolerance, Enhanced Parry.
Disadvantages: Vow(no armor).
Skills: To be filled in.
Techniques: To be filled in.

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Originally Posted by Dunadin777

Ah, I suppose that's more reasonable, then. I tend to be sharply biased against anything labeled cinematic [snip]

But you wrote such a cinematic style... ;]

Originally Posted by Dunadin777

That's true, but I think that a swinging attack to the vitals better approximates the damage of the final part of the attack.

Meh, if I was GMing I'd say, "Call it whatever you want, but it still does Thrust damage." Could be handy if your victim resists Impaling but not Cutting.

Originally Posted by Dunadin777

As a house-ruled special combo, I figure that each of the first two thrusts results in the swords becoming stuck--at that point, they have to finish the attack or make a Ready maneuver and ST roll to free the swords. This might be a dramatic gamble for fighting homogenous creatures--if they aren't truncated immediately, they'll have both your swords, and won't be terribly affected by the first two steps of the attack. I could see a Stygian Knight(armor-golem) strangling a Heron Guard even as two swords are buried up to the hilt in his midriff. The only problem to my way of thinking is that I don't think the third attack should have much chance of failing or being defended against. Suggestions of how to represent this(Telegraphic?) and keep it balanced to a traditional Combination attack would be welcome.

Definitely not Telegraphic Attack - That makes it easier to Parry. You could call it an All-Out Attack (Determined) or Committed Attack (Determined) and blow the Determined bonus on Deceptive Attack if you don't mind nerfing your own defense. If you want to balance a big bonus to hit and/or penalty to defend with the getting stuck thing, it needs to be more of a nuisance... Maybe say they get stuck if they fail to do at least HP/2 + DR damage on the exit wound, for example...

Originally Posted by Dunadin777

Northern Bone-breaking
'Bruskalle Storarm' (lit. 'Broken skull and strong-arm')
(Brutal Wrestling Style) 4 points
The Northmen of Norheim are a hardy, renowned breed. Accustomed to living in the frosty highlands and coastal villages of their rugged nation, Northmen find violence in sports and daily living as well as their brutal approach to combat. Their favorite sports have a large tendency towards killing, maiming, or at least injuring each other, and Bruskalle Storarm--their favored wrestling style--is no exception.

This wrestling style is about cruel grapples and hard hits. Northmen view fighting half-heartedly as a sign of weakness or timid character, and they don't embrace either characteristic, so even when this style is employed between drunken clan-mates, things can get serious. Broken bones and deep contusions are the common result of this being used in 'sport', and death is almost invariably its result when applied in a sober state of mind.
Skills: Brawling; Wrestling; Carousing.

Skill Sub: Carousing -> Savoir-Faire (Dojo)! I know it's labeled as cinematic, but these guys really need the Drunken Fighting perk if you don't want them to get completely owned by anybody they fight while drinking. In realistic settings, drinking can make you violent but also makes you suck at it, just like in real life, even with Carousing as a primary skill.

Originally Posted by Dunadin777

Techniques: Head-butt; Arm Lock; Wrench Limb; Uppercut; Stomp;

Sure, sure...

Originally Posted by Dunadin777

Sacrificial Throw;

Sacrifice Throw is normally a Judo move only, so they're going to need a Skill Sub perk if you want them doing it with Wrestling. Also needs a Technique Mastery perk to buy higher than Skill. May also get you killed outside of sporting competitions, even if you have Ground Fighting, because it's always an AoA.

Originally Posted by Dunadin777

Tarteted Attack (Head Butt/face); Combination (Head Butt/face + Sacrificial Throw);

If I was a player in this setting, I'd be all over TA (Head To Face) but could not be convinced to invest in that combo. It needs a grapple or Wrestling Parry to set it up, so there's another round without even the option of making it an AoA (Double) because you're already using AoA for something else. A Grapple+Headbutt Face Combination would be a much better investment, IMHO, because it does an end-run around their chance to Break Free before you hit them. Besides, if I've just headbutted somebody in the face, chances are I won't need a Sacrifice Throw to put them on the ground; that's the great thing about the Face rules.

Originally Posted by Dunadin777

Combination (Kick/Groin + Uppercut/Face).

Same deal: Wouldn't buy it. Kicking the groin is kind of a longshot unless you're heavily invested in it with Kicking and TA, can only be used against (at most) 50% of your enemies, and, when successful, will often invalidate your victim for the follow-through Uppercut because he won't be standing anymore. Wrestling Grapple / Torso + Knee Strike / Groin, on the other hand, would be pretty sweet, IMHO.

Originally Posted by Dunadin777

Perks: Ground-fighting.

In addition to the Perks I mentioned above, I'd give them Power Grappling, Special Exercises (May Buy Tough Skin DR x1), Neck Control, and Improvised Weapons (Brawling).

Originally Posted by Dunadin777

Optional Traits

Rapid Healing would probably be of tremendous benefit...

Originally Posted by Dunadin777

Sword and Shoulder
'Boskablad' (lit. 'Bull-sword')
(Two-handed Greatsword Combat Style) 0 points
The Berserkers of Norheim have been an essential part of the Legion's success over the past two centuries. Accustomed to living in the frosty highlands and coastal villages of their rugged nation, Northmen find violence in sports and daily living as well as their brutal approach to combat. Going into battle with little more than their boots and a sword--even in the winter of the lower Provinces--they are reliable scouts, fast runners, and devastating shock troops.

I know I'd be shocked...

Originally Posted by Dunadin777

The Berserkers' fighting style revolves around aggressive, exclusive use of the claymore and the ferocious character of the North. Covered in scars and battle-paint, Berkerkers swing their swords in devastating, large arcs that would be considered clumsy if not for the speed and power between each hit. Without armor to rely upon, Berserkers use lunges and charges to get into combat, while quickly dodging incoming attacks. If a clever foe closes the gap, trying to get within their sword-swings, a practicioner of Boskablad will often improvise with a head-butt or quick kick to stagger their enemy back into the claymore's path.
[COLOR=Navy]Skills: Two-handed Greatsword; Brawling; Running.

4e Update: Running skill doesn't help you close in combat anymore; buy Extra Basic Move if that's what you're looking for.

Originally Posted by Dunadin777

Perks: To be filled in.

It's super-duper cinematic, but Extra Option (Arrow-Proof Nudity) would help these guys live for a few extra seconds...

Originally Posted by Dunadin777

Optional Traits
Secondary Characteristics: increased HT.
Advantages: Increased Temperature Tolerance.
Disadvantages: To be filled in.
Skills: To be filled in.
Techniques: To be filled in.

They're going to need to be stronger than average. I'd probably give them a "No Armor" Vow and Enhanced Parry, too.

[Dunadin777]

Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc

Definitely not Telegraphic Attack - That makes it easier to Parry. You could call it an All-Out Attack (Determined) or Committed Attack (Determined) and blow the Determined bonus on Deceptive Attack if you don't mind nerfing your own defense. If you want to balance a big bonus to hit and/or penalty to defend with the getting stuck thing, it needs to be more of a nuisance... Maybe say they get stuck if they fail to do at least HP/2 + DR damage on the exit wound, for example...

Yeah, I like that. I'd rule that if the first two attacks do hit and wound, they are stuck. They then require an All-Out Attack (determined) with at least Deceptive Attack 2 to try to tug them outward to do swing damage. If it hits, they still need to do HP/2 wounding damage to get free, which in turn truncates the enemy. Otherwise, another attack maneuver can be used with at least Deceptive Attack 2 to do thrusting damage to remove them. This second option represents tugging the swords back out the way they came, rather than twisting for maximum damage.

Though not a Deceptive Attack in the deceptive sense, I think it does represent this well. The victim knows that you're going to retrieve those swords if you can, making your to-hit roll difficult, but if you do get a hold of those blades, he can't have much shot of dodging.

Skill Sub: Carousing -> Savoir-Faire (Dojo)! I know it's labeled as cinematic, but these guys really need the Drunken Fighting perk if you don't want them to get completely owned by anybody they fight while drinking. In realistic settings, drinking can make you violent but also makes you suck at it, just like in real life, even with Carousing as a primary skill.

Oh, that's certainly true. Drunken Fighting will definitely be a cinematic perk(available to anybody else who might be reading this), but I wouldn't use it in my campaign. Odds are that the PCs introduction to this style and to Norheim in general will be walking into a thatch-and-mud hut village and find a pair of drunks trying to break each other's heads. Especially since one of the PCs is a drunken blacksmith with no social skills, I want Norheim as a culture to be dangerous to him--defaulting at Carousing skill, if he goes on a bender, odds are that he is going to be on the other end of this style. With the other benefits built into the Northmen template, the poor smith could use a break with him at least being equally penalized by being drunk.

Sacrifice Throw is normally a Judo move only, so they're going to need a Skill Sub perk if you want them doing it with Wrestling. Also needs a Technique Mastery perk to buy higher than Skill. May also get you killed outside of sporting competitions, even if you have Ground Fighting, because it's always an AoA.

Thinking about this some more, I think that Sacrifice Throw is probably not fitting. Probably more along the lines of flying tackles--something fairly likely to be an opening move before the fighters get to within range.

A Grapple+Headbutt Face Combination would be a much better investment, IMHO, because it does an end-run around their chance to Break Free before you hit them. Besides, if I've just headbutted somebody in the face, chances are I won't need a Sacrifice Throw to put them on the ground; that's the great thing about the Face rules.

With Sacrifice Throw axed, I'll change this combo to wrestling grapple/torso + headbutt/face(hehe, headbuttface).

Same deal: Wouldn't buy it. Kicking the groin is kind of a longshot unless you're heavily invested in it with Kicking and TA, can only be used against (at most) 50% of your enemies, and, when successful, will often invalidate your victim for the follow-through Uppercut because he won't be standing anymore. Wrestling Grapple / Torso + Knee Strike / Groin, on the other hand, would be pretty sweet, IMHO.

Done. The kicking the groin combo is intended for shock value, really(shocking the victim and the spectators), so making it into a grapple and knee-strike to the groin is just as good and much more practical, + Uppercut/face for those who've invested into it. This will make for one of those decisive finishers that guys see and respond with, "Ow...oh, that's not fair."

In addition to the Perks I mentioned above, I'd give them Power Grappling, Special Exercises (May Buy Tough Skin DR x1), Neck Control, and Improvised Weapons (Brawling).

Rapid Healing would probably be of tremendous benefit...

Those are definite options, though Rapid Healing would be something available to the Northmen template. This style, unlike the Heron Guard's, is going to be available for outsiders to learn, and so Rapid Healing will be out of their reach.

4e Update: Running skill doesn't help you close in combat anymore; buy Extra Basic Move if that's what you're looking for.

Oh, I know. I just included it as an important skill to the style because of their heavy emphasis on running in their lifestyle. In the setting, Northmen runners are the preferred messenger the world over when speed and reliability are important.

It's super-duper cinematic, but Extra Option (Arrow-Proof Nudity) would help these guys live for a few extra seconds...

A good, flavorful option that'll be included for those cinematic types who are interested.

They're going to need to be stronger than average. I'd probably give them a "No Armor" Vow and Enhanced Parry, too.

Yeah, the Northmen racial template I'm working on will include +2 ST, +2 HT, and the Berserker lens will have additional benefits such as Rapid Healing, Recovery, and Hard to Kill/Subdue. If anyone's interested in seeing more setting-specific stuff, I can post my 4e Myth conversions later on, but I think the setting is pretty niche. But the Martial Arts styles are new, so I really need some guidance if I'm going to incorporate them into the campaign easily. Anyways, most of the Berserker benefits are inherent to their society and race, so not all of those will be part of style training.