Is there a reason why there is no table for submachine guns in GURPS Lite 4e?

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by copeab

4e Lite is a bit less generic than 3e Lite.

Really? My impression of GURPS Lite Fourth Editon was that it was more generic than GURPS Lite Third Edition. But, then again, I've spent more time with 4e Lite and only eyeball 3e Lite on occasion.

Originally Posted by copeab

4e Lite doesn't have any magic rules (although one could argue the 3eL rules are so minimal they aren't of much use) and 4eL devotes space to the World Jumper advantage which is of extremely limited value outside of, oh, an Infinite Worlds campaign).

Oh, man, I remember the first time I read the entry on the "World Jumper" advantage.

To this day, it still makes me think, "What the ####…"

Originally Posted by copeab

The point of all this is that something always has to be left out and something included of questionable value.

But that still doesn't make my job as the GM any easier. :/

Originally Posted by OldSam

You make a valid point but it's not that easy... For instance a car is something you can try out and _then_ decide if you buy/take it. If you get a complete document for "trying it out", you already have all the information and don't need to buy something else.

All that I'm asking for is a functional demo system, not a half-baked mishmash of copypasta'd standard GURPS mechanics and simplified GURPS mechanics.

Originally Posted by OldSam

But I would definitely agree with you that there is some content in Lite that could be better left out, because it's not of much use for Lite-only players, anyway.

And for that, I thank you.

My issue isn't that I have to pay to get the real deal, my issue is that I have parts of the real deal and parts of the simplified deal. Unfortunately, you need all of either deal just to run an adventure.

Originally Posted by OldSam

At least they should have made clear in the introduction, that some things are just samples of what could be, rather than being useful in an actual Lite-Game.

I would prefer it if they didn't reference advantages, disadvantages, skills, et cetera in the other books at all, especially if they can't be utilised properly.

Originally Posted by OldSam

IMHO it's bad style that they did not make that clear in the beginning, though of course it's free and overall still a good product.

It's bad style that the author included the content at all.

Originally Posted by OldSam

Also they should have pointed out, that it's a more abstract easy-version of the game, where indeed you could treat a SMG (more or less) just like a Rifle, letting out all details.

Maybe in an little updated version of Lite, they could extend the introduction with respect to that.

Not to sound like a broken record, but I would prefer it if they didn't reference advantages, disadvantages, skills, et cetera in the other books at all, especially if they can't be utilised.

Originally Posted by Jerron

As mentioned, Lite is mostly for players.

I remember agreeing with sir_pudding on that. As a reference for players, GURPS Lite Fourth Edition is alright. As a reference for a GM, it's a nightmare.

Originally Posted by Jerron

The way it's set up, it can be used as the only resource for a GM as well, but this will be a very basic and limited game, like a demo. Which is exactly what you're running in to. Lite is excellent for letting players have enough rules to join your game, without everyone needing to buy expensive books. To get all of the functionality out the 500 page rules, *someone* has to buy them. Those computer games have the full program, you just can't use all the stuff or go to all the places without the secret code, and that costs money. It's a decent strategy to get sales, and it also helps increase the community feeling of the game. I tend to think it's a great idea, even if it is a quite limited idea with limited functionality, its better than any other game company does (except now, some of them are copycating).

I agree with everything you say and see the logic behind it, I just don't like how it was particularly executed with GURPS Lite Fourth Edition.

I'm not expecting everything for free, all I expect is a functional system demo of the real deal. Something that can stand up on its own two legs without being supported of third-party resources and overshadowed by its bigger brothers.

Originally Posted by Jerron

I'm sorry if you feel you need more for free.

OK.

Originally Posted by Jerron

There's all sorts of ways to get free things, this one happens to be legal. If you really want to play in a GURPS game before you invest, perhaps a nice PbP game would be the ticket? There's several around, and most (if not all) of them would accept someone with just the Lite rules.

I mentioned in another of my threads that I participated as a player in an adventure that used GURPS Lite Fourth Edition. I'm not sure if the GM (Naborr) had access to other official GURPS sources, but he seemed to know what he was doing. Unfortunately, the RP died of inactivity before anything more than mildly interesting could happen, but the seed of GURPS was sown and I began to research into it myself.

EDIT: More coming later.